I prefer news sources from China. They're one of the most neutral (if there is such a thing in this conflict) and aren't afraid to expose propaganda from the Western side as well.
@SJCVChess said in #51:
> If Russia involves Western countries, we're going to crush you and do to Russian culture what it is trying to do to ethnic Ukrainians right now. If Ukraine can give the Russian military so many problems, it's going to be easy as dirt for 141 other countries to take apart Russia; and probably in half the time. After that's done, winner writes history, we're going to break-up Russia, subjugate it, strip your resources. Russia's people will be free from dictatorship. They will profit it from it. But they will also be subjugated, like what the Allies did to Germany and Japan after WWII. In effect: the world will literally spay and neuter Russia so that it can never again pose a threat to a peaceful world.
You know what, if that does happen there's going to be a WWIII. No fighting, just a bunch of massive explosions and humanity is gone. So I would try prevent that scenario.
> If Russia involves Western countries, we're going to crush you and do to Russian culture what it is trying to do to ethnic Ukrainians right now. If Ukraine can give the Russian military so many problems, it's going to be easy as dirt for 141 other countries to take apart Russia; and probably in half the time. After that's done, winner writes history, we're going to break-up Russia, subjugate it, strip your resources. Russia's people will be free from dictatorship. They will profit it from it. But they will also be subjugated, like what the Allies did to Germany and Japan after WWII. In effect: the world will literally spay and neuter Russia so that it can never again pose a threat to a peaceful world.
You know what, if that does happen there's going to be a WWIII. No fighting, just a bunch of massive explosions and humanity is gone. So I would try prevent that scenario.
.. And now let's imagine that we are in 1939, those who are for Russia are in Germany, and everyone else is in Poland, America and the USSR.
This argument would be exactly the same, only the arguments would be slightly different. But those who in Germany loved Hitler and were zombified by Goebels in 1939 somehow "dezombified" in 1945.
I hope this is where it all ends.
This argument would be exactly the same, only the arguments would be slightly different. But those who in Germany loved Hitler and were zombified by Goebels in 1939 somehow "dezombified" in 1945.
I hope this is where it all ends.
@clousems said in #15:
> Perfect example of quick, short form propaganda.
Perfect example of why people do not understand.
> First, create an arbitrary distinction, and accuse the distinction of causing some sort of failure. (The "whole world", fear)
First, accuse all forms not agreeing with your opinion to be propaganda even though you yourself can probably imagine why people with other views than the seeming majority will not be willing to speak up.
> Second, employ whataboutism, unfounded claims and false comparisons to simultaneously distract from an issue while placing blame on another party (What about America? Why can they invade countries AND BAN COMPANIES when Russia cannot?).
Second, overgeneralize an argument. The former post stated that the 'whole' world is better than Russia. And thus, this argument is valid.
@fish224 said in #16:
> And who is the world afraid of? And in general, America acted ACCORDING to the Minsk Agreements, and russian soldiers shoot at children with machine guns, and is it possible for them?
If you want to talk about agreements the Americans violated, than the list goes on and on. And so it goes with all countries.
> And yes, if America is bad country, why russia copying this country?
And yes, if America is a bad country, why are you desperate to make it seem like America is better than Russia?
@fish224 said in #22:
> And yes, if some people attacked your country, you would hate them. too In any case, such a character trait of Ukrainians..
That is called patriotism and it is not certain. Russia has been continuously exploited by the west since the Soviet protection was lost.
@Mopman said in #23:
> The news sources allowed to be broadcast are not even allowed to call the Invasion of the Ukraine a " war , attack or invasion " and ONLY government approved sources are allowed to be broadcast
Have you seen any Russian news in the west lately?
@Mopman said in #25:
> The thousands of average Ukrainians taking up arms and fighting and sabotaging your supply routes inside the Ukraine and the unarmed protestors who gather in the occupied areas of Ukraine until being driven off with stun grenades and bullets fired into the air speak louder than any Russian State broadcast.
The thousands? You mean the men without training sent to the front and the civilians armed with guns, claiming to be civilians? So according to you, the Somali people were allowed to turn against the wannabe united nation's peace troops and they should not be able to shoot back?
@ujcn said in #29:
> Do you admit that your government cut you off from any opportunity to learn the inconvenient truth, and your media is engaged not in informing, but in propaganda?
Noone needs to admit that. It is true the way it is.
@clousems said in #30:
> Western news is a whole lot more believable than TASS or Sputnik lately.
Funnily, no news were able to explain why russia was forced to do the special military operation.
>Greater emphasis on eyewitness testimony and visual evidence, more fact-checking. Russian news seems to rely exclusively on the testimony of Russian government officials.
Oh, I see. Eyewitnesses! Interview a thousand and pick two out of them. Fact checking! But where? Western news present nothing except what people want to see, with a conclusion of what people think. Remember, they want viewers. The most emotional, but not exactly the most accurate, gets the most.
@Mopman said in #35:
> Western governments do not control it's news media remember ?
And yet they are the ones funding it and the ones giving them 'liberal contributions of [private] money'
>Youtube and Twitter act on their own independently ( something that makes a lot of western political parties very angry at times ) .
No. They just follow the US. Remember what the US did when banning Huawei? And did you notice any pro-eastern news get banned immediately?
> And when you say my media , that must include All of North America , South America , India , Japan , Europe , heck almost every country in the world either denounces Putin's invasion or stays neutral .
Yes. Because everyone not doing it faces consequences by the US. That is called power, and this is the reason why we seemingly have freedom of speech.
> You have no real support.
Funnily he does.
> Remember the UN resolution condemning your attack , only 4 countries voted against it.
'your' attack? Remember why we have 'free' media?
> Belarus ( Putin's puppet state ) , North Korea ( with friends like these ) , Eritrea ( only 1 political party is even allowed to exist here ) and Syria ( ruled since 1971 by a father - son military cabal ).
Ohhhh. So the puppets of the US are not counted?
> Our media is all over the world and free and independent , dozens of countries hundreds of reporters . Pity the same no longer exists in Putin's Russia.
Hahaha. Criticize the government and you will be lucky to be charged with a low fee for calling out for violence. Be more popular and be happy not to be banned from all sports and economics.
@Mopman said in #41:
> The people of Ukraine have fought street by street and are sabotaging your supply columns behind the lines.
Are you using the same arguments over and over again?
@SJCVChess said in #51:
> If Russia involves Western countries, we're going to crush you and do to Russian culture what it is trying to do to ethnic Ukrainians right now.
It is doing that to russian culture already.
>and probably in half the time. After that's done, winner writes history
You noticed it. Winner writes history. And winner writes media today.
> we're going to break-up Russia, subjugate it, strip your resources. Russia's people will be free from dictatorship.
Just the way Somalia was free from violence? Haha. Do not trust these wannabe freedom for a country. Funnily, that is one of the points where eyewitnesses are sparsely found.
>They will profit it from it.
Ask 'them'. Do not trust a government newspaper back home.
> But they will also be subjugated, like what the Allies did to Germany and Japan after WWII. In effect: the world will literally spay and neuter Russia so that it can never again pose a threat to a peaceful world.
Oh, so you think Russia is the sole offender in this world? Where your 'democracy' goes, American troops enter, and everyone living there gets happily exploited. But never mind. These starving and locked away poor have all the right to say whatever they want.
> ... and shell nuclear power plants trying to cause another Chernobyl.
Violation of your first rule of war. They are not doing that on purpose. And not because of the reasons you mention .
> Maybe you're not animals, but your military is stupid.
What kind of news do you read?
> And given your military is run by your government, by extension, any government which first causes a disaster like Chernobyl, and doesn't learn from it, directs its military to take nuclear installations by force ... stupid.
Crazy how much people tend to use inaccurate facts.
> Perfect example of quick, short form propaganda.
Perfect example of why people do not understand.
> First, create an arbitrary distinction, and accuse the distinction of causing some sort of failure. (The "whole world", fear)
First, accuse all forms not agreeing with your opinion to be propaganda even though you yourself can probably imagine why people with other views than the seeming majority will not be willing to speak up.
> Second, employ whataboutism, unfounded claims and false comparisons to simultaneously distract from an issue while placing blame on another party (What about America? Why can they invade countries AND BAN COMPANIES when Russia cannot?).
Second, overgeneralize an argument. The former post stated that the 'whole' world is better than Russia. And thus, this argument is valid.
@fish224 said in #16:
> And who is the world afraid of? And in general, America acted ACCORDING to the Minsk Agreements, and russian soldiers shoot at children with machine guns, and is it possible for them?
If you want to talk about agreements the Americans violated, than the list goes on and on. And so it goes with all countries.
> And yes, if America is bad country, why russia copying this country?
And yes, if America is a bad country, why are you desperate to make it seem like America is better than Russia?
@fish224 said in #22:
> And yes, if some people attacked your country, you would hate them. too In any case, such a character trait of Ukrainians..
That is called patriotism and it is not certain. Russia has been continuously exploited by the west since the Soviet protection was lost.
@Mopman said in #23:
> The news sources allowed to be broadcast are not even allowed to call the Invasion of the Ukraine a " war , attack or invasion " and ONLY government approved sources are allowed to be broadcast
Have you seen any Russian news in the west lately?
@Mopman said in #25:
> The thousands of average Ukrainians taking up arms and fighting and sabotaging your supply routes inside the Ukraine and the unarmed protestors who gather in the occupied areas of Ukraine until being driven off with stun grenades and bullets fired into the air speak louder than any Russian State broadcast.
The thousands? You mean the men without training sent to the front and the civilians armed with guns, claiming to be civilians? So according to you, the Somali people were allowed to turn against the wannabe united nation's peace troops and they should not be able to shoot back?
@ujcn said in #29:
> Do you admit that your government cut you off from any opportunity to learn the inconvenient truth, and your media is engaged not in informing, but in propaganda?
Noone needs to admit that. It is true the way it is.
@clousems said in #30:
> Western news is a whole lot more believable than TASS or Sputnik lately.
Funnily, no news were able to explain why russia was forced to do the special military operation.
>Greater emphasis on eyewitness testimony and visual evidence, more fact-checking. Russian news seems to rely exclusively on the testimony of Russian government officials.
Oh, I see. Eyewitnesses! Interview a thousand and pick two out of them. Fact checking! But where? Western news present nothing except what people want to see, with a conclusion of what people think. Remember, they want viewers. The most emotional, but not exactly the most accurate, gets the most.
@Mopman said in #35:
> Western governments do not control it's news media remember ?
And yet they are the ones funding it and the ones giving them 'liberal contributions of [private] money'
>Youtube and Twitter act on their own independently ( something that makes a lot of western political parties very angry at times ) .
No. They just follow the US. Remember what the US did when banning Huawei? And did you notice any pro-eastern news get banned immediately?
> And when you say my media , that must include All of North America , South America , India , Japan , Europe , heck almost every country in the world either denounces Putin's invasion or stays neutral .
Yes. Because everyone not doing it faces consequences by the US. That is called power, and this is the reason why we seemingly have freedom of speech.
> You have no real support.
Funnily he does.
> Remember the UN resolution condemning your attack , only 4 countries voted against it.
'your' attack? Remember why we have 'free' media?
> Belarus ( Putin's puppet state ) , North Korea ( with friends like these ) , Eritrea ( only 1 political party is even allowed to exist here ) and Syria ( ruled since 1971 by a father - son military cabal ).
Ohhhh. So the puppets of the US are not counted?
> Our media is all over the world and free and independent , dozens of countries hundreds of reporters . Pity the same no longer exists in Putin's Russia.
Hahaha. Criticize the government and you will be lucky to be charged with a low fee for calling out for violence. Be more popular and be happy not to be banned from all sports and economics.
@Mopman said in #41:
> The people of Ukraine have fought street by street and are sabotaging your supply columns behind the lines.
Are you using the same arguments over and over again?
@SJCVChess said in #51:
> If Russia involves Western countries, we're going to crush you and do to Russian culture what it is trying to do to ethnic Ukrainians right now.
It is doing that to russian culture already.
>and probably in half the time. After that's done, winner writes history
You noticed it. Winner writes history. And winner writes media today.
> we're going to break-up Russia, subjugate it, strip your resources. Russia's people will be free from dictatorship.
Just the way Somalia was free from violence? Haha. Do not trust these wannabe freedom for a country. Funnily, that is one of the points where eyewitnesses are sparsely found.
>They will profit it from it.
Ask 'them'. Do not trust a government newspaper back home.
> But they will also be subjugated, like what the Allies did to Germany and Japan after WWII. In effect: the world will literally spay and neuter Russia so that it can never again pose a threat to a peaceful world.
Oh, so you think Russia is the sole offender in this world? Where your 'democracy' goes, American troops enter, and everyone living there gets happily exploited. But never mind. These starving and locked away poor have all the right to say whatever they want.
> ... and shell nuclear power plants trying to cause another Chernobyl.
Violation of your first rule of war. They are not doing that on purpose. And not because of the reasons you mention .
> Maybe you're not animals, but your military is stupid.
What kind of news do you read?
> And given your military is run by your government, by extension, any government which first causes a disaster like Chernobyl, and doesn't learn from it, directs its military to take nuclear installations by force ... stupid.
Crazy how much people tend to use inaccurate facts.
Overgeneralize? Are you fucking kidding me? I literally broke down your argument sentence by sentence, using quotes and paraphrases. Your response is a series of non-sequiturs and passive-aggressive ad hominems.
I have no problem with people pointing out my mistakes. I do have a problem with people who make up arguments, attribute them to me, and use these false claims to make me appear biased.
Begone, libeler!
I have no problem with people pointing out my mistakes. I do have a problem with people who make up arguments, attribute them to me, and use these false claims to make me appear biased.
Begone, libeler!
@absicht_MAUERzuBAUEN said in post # 56
>That is called patriotism and it is not certain. Russia has been continuously exploited by the west since the Soviet protection was >lost.
Nice to see you finally admit that you want the return of the Soviet Union .
You never were a neutral player , you simply lied to everyone.
Putin's and your dreams of a restored Soviet Gulag STATE are the same type as the old ex-Nazi's from the 1950's and 60's.
Both belong in the dustbin of history with all the other trash.
>That is called patriotism and it is not certain. Russia has been continuously exploited by the west since the Soviet protection was >lost.
Nice to see you finally admit that you want the return of the Soviet Union .
You never were a neutral player , you simply lied to everyone.
Putin's and your dreams of a restored Soviet Gulag STATE are the same type as the old ex-Nazi's from the 1950's and 60's.
Both belong in the dustbin of history with all the other trash.
@absicht_MAUERzuBAUEN said in #56:
> If you want to talk about agreements the Americans violated, than the list goes on and on. And so it goes with all countries.
Haha, this is false, because Americans never bombs other countries.
> And yes, if America is a bad country, why are you desperate to make it seem like America is better than Russia?
Because i said "if". I think America is great.
> If you want to talk about agreements the Americans violated, than the list goes on and on. And so it goes with all countries.
Haha, this is false, because Americans never bombs other countries.
> And yes, if America is a bad country, why are you desperate to make it seem like America is better than Russia?
Because i said "if". I think America is great.
#56,
These two established (and independently verifiable) facts are sufficiently damning to Putin's cause (and yours, apparently):
(1) Ukraine is a sovereign nation, and (2) Russia has attacked it.
"But they have a bad government" doesn't justify attacking them; bombing civilians and "liberating" them aren't the same thing, by any stretch of the imagination. ;(
"But everyone else is doing it!" is also not an excuse: Even if the USA were the embodiment of pure evil (a laughable proposition, considering the competition they have), that does not justify this Russian aggression. :|
For Ukraine's part, self defense is its own excuse. They are not the aggressor here --- this is happening on their soil, for God's ache --- so the burden of proof is not on them.
"Yeah, but look what they did half a century ago!" Irrelevant. Two wrongs don't make a right. Ukraine didn't start this current conflict, so it's not their fault; Putin started it, so it's his fault. Period. That's objective & indisputable, and it really is all that matters here; all quibbling over details & motives be damned.
> Oh, so you think Russia is the sole offender in this world?
In this world, no; in this specific conflict, yes. (Who's "overgeneralizing" now?)
In short: You know full well what the truth is (see my posts on the previous page), and you do yourself a disservice by talking in circles, instead of admitting that your pet cause is a lost cause. You can't play ignorant; you don't have that option anymore, because you know enough of the facts by now to be held accountable for what you know.
Wherefore I appeal to your conscience. I urge you to heed that still, small voice in your head --- if not also the screams of the dying --- before it's too late for you, and/or for countless others more innocent & deserving than the scum of the earth whom you have tried (and failed) to defend.
These two established (and independently verifiable) facts are sufficiently damning to Putin's cause (and yours, apparently):
(1) Ukraine is a sovereign nation, and (2) Russia has attacked it.
"But they have a bad government" doesn't justify attacking them; bombing civilians and "liberating" them aren't the same thing, by any stretch of the imagination. ;(
"But everyone else is doing it!" is also not an excuse: Even if the USA were the embodiment of pure evil (a laughable proposition, considering the competition they have), that does not justify this Russian aggression. :|
For Ukraine's part, self defense is its own excuse. They are not the aggressor here --- this is happening on their soil, for God's ache --- so the burden of proof is not on them.
"Yeah, but look what they did half a century ago!" Irrelevant. Two wrongs don't make a right. Ukraine didn't start this current conflict, so it's not their fault; Putin started it, so it's his fault. Period. That's objective & indisputable, and it really is all that matters here; all quibbling over details & motives be damned.
> Oh, so you think Russia is the sole offender in this world?
In this world, no; in this specific conflict, yes. (Who's "overgeneralizing" now?)
In short: You know full well what the truth is (see my posts on the previous page), and you do yourself a disservice by talking in circles, instead of admitting that your pet cause is a lost cause. You can't play ignorant; you don't have that option anymore, because you know enough of the facts by now to be held accountable for what you know.
Wherefore I appeal to your conscience. I urge you to heed that still, small voice in your head --- if not also the screams of the dying --- before it's too late for you, and/or for countless others more innocent & deserving than the scum of the earth whom you have tried (and failed) to defend.
Hi guys! Let's analyze the game, shall we?
So, on March 22, I asked 2 questions related to the conflict in Ukraine <<Your country and your sources of information that influence your opinion>>
5 days have passed.
There are 60 messages in the topic.
1.Ukraine - 31 messages - from 5 people
2.Russia-11 messages-1 person (+2 of my total-13 messages)
3. Pirates? - 5 messages - 2 people
4. Germany - 3 messages - 1 person
5.USA - 1 message - 1 person
6.Reunion-1-1
7.New Zealand-2-1
8.India-1-1
What can you pay attention to. The rating of your answers.
Attention! A very important post to understand what is happening.
First place! among those who responded.
1) An eyewitness to the events from Ukraine (he writes so) @fish224 #2 Be sure to read it. His "source of information" is very indicative of his eyes and FAITH!!! Belief that all countries of the world condemn Russia. Surprisingly, the person BELIEVE!!! in that. He is not interested in facts, he just believes! I heard about different sects of Adventists or Jehovah's Witnesses, but I hear about an anti-Russian sect for the first time) It seems to be a fact. Moreover, Tchaikovsky, Dostoyevsky, Chekhov and others are now being canceled in Europe. Are you sectarians?
He writes that EVERYTHING! saw with my own eyes,
I have a few questions for fish224. Can you be more specific?
1. What exactly did you see?
2.Where did you see?
3.When did you see?
4. Who can confirm your vision (photos, videos, at least fakes)?
5. Why should people trust you?
As for all the countries of the world that condemn Russia, there is no need to comment, all the countries of the world are not the USA + Europe.
And in this topic, all countries of the world (except Ukrainians) - 1 German, 1 American, 2 pirates, 1 Indian and someone else. see above)
For the rest of the players on the site, this topic was not of interest, this is a fact.
2) Only 1 person from Russia contributed source material #24 @ujcn - take a look if you're interested. By the way, a paradox for you, but this is a Ukrainian source. Fake or not, it's up to you. But there is a source, it's a fact. Thanks.
3) Germany- @absicht_MAUERzuBAUEN #12. An attempt at a detailed analysis of the situation. Whether he is right or wrong is up to you. But she is. Thanks.
The rest of the comments are just emotions.
My imperfect conclusion from the rest of the answers.
Western (I want to emphasize this, namely Western) public opinion is a QUESTION OF FAITH but not knowledge and facts.
What are FAITH questions? Maybe this is an internal human need? Recognition of YOUR truth, regardless of logic and facts?
Speaking of faith, I also believe that Count Dracula lives in Transylvania, who drinks the blood of Europeans at dinner, and there are many sources confirming this. I'm right?)
Р.S. Thanks to all the players who have commented on this topic. I invite you to the next one. ,,West vs East. point of view,,
lichess.org/forum/off-topic-discussion/west-vs-east-point-of-view
So, on March 22, I asked 2 questions related to the conflict in Ukraine <<Your country and your sources of information that influence your opinion>>
5 days have passed.
There are 60 messages in the topic.
1.Ukraine - 31 messages - from 5 people
2.Russia-11 messages-1 person (+2 of my total-13 messages)
3. Pirates? - 5 messages - 2 people
4. Germany - 3 messages - 1 person
5.USA - 1 message - 1 person
6.Reunion-1-1
7.New Zealand-2-1
8.India-1-1
What can you pay attention to. The rating of your answers.
Attention! A very important post to understand what is happening.
First place! among those who responded.
1) An eyewitness to the events from Ukraine (he writes so) @fish224 #2 Be sure to read it. His "source of information" is very indicative of his eyes and FAITH!!! Belief that all countries of the world condemn Russia. Surprisingly, the person BELIEVE!!! in that. He is not interested in facts, he just believes! I heard about different sects of Adventists or Jehovah's Witnesses, but I hear about an anti-Russian sect for the first time) It seems to be a fact. Moreover, Tchaikovsky, Dostoyevsky, Chekhov and others are now being canceled in Europe. Are you sectarians?
He writes that EVERYTHING! saw with my own eyes,
I have a few questions for fish224. Can you be more specific?
1. What exactly did you see?
2.Where did you see?
3.When did you see?
4. Who can confirm your vision (photos, videos, at least fakes)?
5. Why should people trust you?
As for all the countries of the world that condemn Russia, there is no need to comment, all the countries of the world are not the USA + Europe.
And in this topic, all countries of the world (except Ukrainians) - 1 German, 1 American, 2 pirates, 1 Indian and someone else. see above)
For the rest of the players on the site, this topic was not of interest, this is a fact.
2) Only 1 person from Russia contributed source material #24 @ujcn - take a look if you're interested. By the way, a paradox for you, but this is a Ukrainian source. Fake or not, it's up to you. But there is a source, it's a fact. Thanks.
3) Germany- @absicht_MAUERzuBAUEN #12. An attempt at a detailed analysis of the situation. Whether he is right or wrong is up to you. But she is. Thanks.
The rest of the comments are just emotions.
My imperfect conclusion from the rest of the answers.
Western (I want to emphasize this, namely Western) public opinion is a QUESTION OF FAITH but not knowledge and facts.
What are FAITH questions? Maybe this is an internal human need? Recognition of YOUR truth, regardless of logic and facts?
Speaking of faith, I also believe that Count Dracula lives in Transylvania, who drinks the blood of Europeans at dinner, and there are many sources confirming this. I'm right?)
Р.S. Thanks to all the players who have commented on this topic. I invite you to the next one. ,,West vs East. point of view,,
lichess.org/forum/off-topic-discussion/west-vs-east-point-of-view
This topic has been archived and can no longer be replied to.