just the news fellas.

Four in Ten Fear Civil War in France Amid Spread of Islamism ( as reported in the UK daily mail ).

happy now ?

and then there is Germany, as also reported in the UK daily mail.

Germany is secretly forming an alliance of European countries that will turn away asylum seekers at their borders, it has been reported.

the Merkel ( a communist from east Germany ) got what she wanted and now it is time to pay the piper.

happy now ?

@oldgreycollie said in #1:

>Four in Ten Fear Civil War in France Amid Spread of Islamism ( as reported in the UK daily mail ).

It's strange that the Daily Mail didn't mention the percentage of French people who fear that a civil war will break out between the far left and the far right.

@CSKA_Moscou said in #2:

>It's strange that the Daily Mail didn't mention the percentage of French people who fear that a civil war will break out between the far left and the far right.

External treat perhaps more urgent than internal.

But its pretty rough. I saw a video of French civilians in a phalanx formation with shields (metal trash can covers) fighting a line of violent islamic protesters a while ago. Foreign cultures more often than not do not adopt the culture of the country that receives them.

@Alientcp said in #3:

>External treat perhaps more urgent than internal.

Sorry, but the riots of the summer of 2023 and 2024 were worrying.

Factions are becoming increasingly organized, and even in small towns, there have been guerrilla tactics and pitched battles at the first protest.

We're a far cry from the Gilets jaunes protests in terms of violence.

>But its pretty rough. I saw a video of French civilians in a phalanx formation with shields (metal trash can covers) fighting a line of violent islamic protesters a while ago. Foreign cultures more often than not do not adopt the culture of the country that receives them.

Lol, It's old-fashioned, no one uses shields anymore. They use firework mortar like a bazooka

@oldgreycollie said in #1:

>the Merkel ( a communist from east Germany ) got what she wanted and now it is time to pay the piper.

I am confused. Is it you, or is it some idiot reporter from the "hate Mail" who thinks Angela Merkel is "a communist from East Germany"? She is actually a conservative politician with the Christian Democratic Union and was German Chancellor between 2005 and 2021.

@CSKA_Moscou said in #4:

>Sorry, but the riots of the summer of 2023 and 2024 were worrying.
>
>Factions are becoming increasingly organized, and even in small towns, there have been guerrilla tactics and pitched battles at the first protest.
>
>We're a far cry from the Gilets jaunes protests in terms of violence.

I take it you live in france? One of the socialist newspapers here in the UK gave these figures for anti-racist demonstations organised by Marche des Solidarites last weekend . . .

"There were 100,000 in the streets of Paris, 10,000 in Marseille, 7,000 in Lyon, 5,000 in Toulouse, 4,000 in Rennes, 3,000 in Saint-Etienne, 2,500 in Brest and 2,000 in Montpellier. Anti-racists joined demonstrations in nearly 200 cities and towns, backed by nearly 600 organisations . . . In Paris, activists held placards reading, “Fascism is gangrene from Washington to Paris."

Are these numbers reasonably accurate?

@CSKA_Moscou said in #4:

>Lol, It's old-fashioned, no one uses shields anymore. They use firework mortar like a bazooka

I saw the video a few months ago. Civilians were in phalanx formation with metal trash covers as shields, using stones and blunt objects, such as pieces of wood, bats, as whatnot.

I saw it.

But there is perhaps a misuse of words. France is not known for being a far right country. They actually fought against 2 of them.
But many countries are indeed going too far to the left. Some are indeed far left, and may not necessarily be the government itself, but the ideologies of the people who are causing the revolts in most cases.

The best point is around the middle. When the right pulls to hard, the left pull harder. When the left pulls too hard, the right pulls harder.

The ones pulling harder right now is the right, however, I highly doubt they are far right. They are just on the right, the far left tends to label everything that goes against them as far right.

And obviously the right is mad. The prices of everything are rising because when you allow hundreds of thousands or even millions in your country from 1 moment to another, the common items become scarce, as there is way far more demand than offer. Prices suddenly go up. What a shocker.

Housing skyrockets. There are not enough houses. You sell them or rent them at higher prices, as everyone is looking.

Same with services like water and electricity. Urban infrastructure never had the necessity of growing at that accelerated rate and the local governments are not reacting in time as its unprecedented (and there is no official record of the increase of population as most is undocumented), so in the government eyes, there is no need for it. Yet the infrastructure is stressed to the max, obviously prices go up.

So its natural that people want to stop or lower immigration. Its not a far right posture. Its just common sense to combat the root cause of the problem.
And if you add the fact that the newcomers want to impose their culture by force, some one will obviously show resistance to foreign imposition.

Those are the effects of the far left who want open borders. So the right pulls harder to try to get it to a respectable and sustainable middle ground.

@stockwellpete said in #6:

>I take it you live in france?

Yes, i live in a mid-size city in the west.

>One of the socialist newspapers here in the UK gave these figures for anti-racist demonstations organised by Marche des Solidarites last weekend . . .
>
>"There were 100,000 in the streets of Paris, 10,000 in Marseille, 7,000 in Lyon, 5,000 in Toulouse, 4,000 in Rennes, 3,000 in Saint-Etienne, 2,500 in Brest and 2,000 in Montpellier. Anti-racists joined demonstrations in nearly 200 cities and towns, backed by nearly 600 organisations . . . In Paris, activists held placards reading, “Fascism is gangrene from Washington to Paris."
>
>Are these numbers reasonably accurate?

The main French newspapers (which I have admittedly limited confidence in) put the number of protesters at around 100,000... throughout France. And even the usually left-leaning media are discreet about the figures, reporting a few thousand people in various cities and almost 200 demonstrations throughout France.

So these numbers are quite exaggerated.

@Alientcp said in #7:

>I saw the video a few months ago. Civilians were in phalanx formation with metal trash covers as shields, using stones and blunt objects, such as pieces of wood, bats, as whatnot.
>
>I saw it.

It's weird, I've never heard of such a protest or with such equipment in the last two years. So I'd be interested to have details on the source. However, quite similar tactics took place during the protest against pension reform: umbrellas were used as shields and protesters with umbrellas actually formed testudos to avoid the water jets from the police water cannons.

>
>But there is perhaps a misuse of words. France is not known for being a far right country. They actually fought against 2 of them.
>But many countries are indeed going too far to the left. Some are indeed far left, and may not necessarily be the government itself, but the ideologies of the people who are causing the revolts in most cases.

France is a country with a very strong far-right presence in recent times. Historically, this is unfortunately not surprising. The media coverage of the Dreyfus Affair and the wave of anti-Semitism with anti-Dreyfusards, which would find a new upswing in the Schwarzberg Affair, also led to the revanchist French nationalism after WWI, and the anti-socialism and anti-communism during the 1930s, followed by the crisis of February 6, 1934.

And, the worst chapter in the entire history of France : collaboration during the Second World War

And btw, when was the 2nd time ?

>The best point is around the middle. When the right pulls to hard, the left pull harder. When the left pulls too hard, the right pulls harder.
>
>The ones pulling harder right now is the right, however, I highly doubt they are far right. They are just on the right, the far left tends to label everything that goes against them as far right.
>
>And obviously the right is mad. The prices of everything are rising because when you allow hundreds of thousands or even millions in your country from 1 moment to another, the common items become scarce, as there is way far more demand than offer. Prices suddenly go up. What a shocker.
>
>Housing skyrockets. There are not enough houses. You sell them or rent them at higher prices, as everyone is looking.
>
>Same with services like water and electricity. Urban infrastructure never had the necessity of growing at that accelerated rate and the local governments are not reacting in time as its unprecedented (and there is no official record of the increase of population as most is undocumented), so in the government eyes, there is no need for it. Yet the infrastructure is stressed to the max, obviously prices go up.
>
>So its natural that people want to stop or lower immigration. Its not a far right posture. Its just common sense to combat the root cause of the problem.
>And if you add the fact that the newcomers want to impose their culture by force, some one will obviously show resistance to foreign imposition.
>
>Those are the effects of the far left who want open borders. So the right pulls harder to try to get it to a respectable and sustainable middle ground.

I don't agree. The middle is not a compromise and will lead to misunderstanding.

The French left has a decidedly humanist bent, favoring free thought and equality.

Today's French right is not the American Republicans; it is a distant descendant of the monarchist parties of the 19th century, to which have been added more virulent or, on the contrary, slightly more republican (in the sense of French republican) fringes.

Gaullism is the closest you could get to what you call the center, a mix between American Democrats in their ideas and American Republicans in economy.

@CSKA_Moscou said in #9:

>It's weird, I've never heard of such a protest or with such equipment in the last two years.

I saw the video in a news portal. Dont recall which one as I often watch different ones from different countries. I tried to look for it, but I didnt found it.
Not that I looked that deep, but I indeed saw it.

>The media coverage of the Dreyfus Affair and the wave of anti-Semitism with anti-Dreyfusards

Not familiar with the dreyfus affair, I will look it up later or tomorrow.

However, the wave of antisemitism, as far as I know, comes from foreigners. Cant say all of it is from foreigners as I do not live in France, but it comes from even before Charlie Hebdo.

I do not consider Islam a far right per say movement. There are some elements, but I cant say further.

>And, the worst chapter in the entire history of France : collaboration during the Second World War

Survival you mean? Kinda easy to label unarmed civilians facing an occupying army. Some would not cooperate when facing a group of occupying soldiers. I wonder If you would when they enter to your home, with your family present.

Maybe I wouldnt cooperate if I was alone, but If my wife, kids or other family members were there, most likely I would too.

>And btw, when was the 2nd time ?

Didnt said in 2 separated instances. I said 2 of them. Italy and Germany. Both alt right.

>I don't agree. The middle is not a compromise and will lead to misunderstanding.

1 2 3 4 5
If 2 and 4 are arguing, 4 compromises a bit to go lower, 2 compromises to be a bit higher. Neither is happy, neither is overly oppressed nor oppressing.

Going too much above or below than 3 is not a compromise, is stepping over the other by force.

>The French left has a decidedly humanist bent

In principle all democracies are humanists. But it you go to either extremes, you will find an authoritarian state. You should know if you wave that flag on your nickname.

I dont complain about the humanism part, it is desirable. But there are borders for a reason, when you erase them, there are some nasty consequences. The first one, as said, housing and services prices skyrocketing. Social problems add several layers of complexity on top.