But you don't know the people you are blocking are cheating? So you are just randomly blocking people who may or may not be cheating? It makes no sense... What are you basing your blocking system on?
@sterobe said in #41:
> But you don't know the people you are blocking are cheating? So you are just randomly blocking people who may or may not be cheating? It makes no sense... What are you basing your blocking system on?
Have you read what I wrote above? Could you please, re-read to make sure we are on the same page here (despite the fact that it is 5th page already :) ).
Yes, this is my judgement. It may be accurate or inaccurate, but in any case it is not random. Otherwise, you will have to admit that people who find cheaters do random choices, as well.
Key point that I make the decision for myself, I don't ask anybody to change player's status. For my point of view, there is no difference from me and people who find cheaters, since we don't have any "certification centers", "grades", etc. for such experts. All people in area are still "home made" in all companies and have very limited expertise. Well, it could be higher than mine, but this is not a gap which prevents me to make my judgements.
Basis for blocking is simple. Let me provide one example to make it short. When people start game very slow (I play bullet and blitz), make many mistakes and give me a tremendous advantage (like +5 or even +7), then disappear for dozens of seconds and get back as superpower making moves in no time in very hard positions with absolute precision (sometimes mixing with 2nd line engine moves - second-grade cheaters) and win the games, I block them in 95% of cases. If you can explain this without cheating, you are welcome. Please, don't say "they are better in end games", if you can play in no time so brilliantly middle game and end game, it wouldn't be hard to avoid stupid mistakes in openings, where chances for mistakes significantly smaller.
> But you don't know the people you are blocking are cheating? So you are just randomly blocking people who may or may not be cheating? It makes no sense... What are you basing your blocking system on?
Have you read what I wrote above? Could you please, re-read to make sure we are on the same page here (despite the fact that it is 5th page already :) ).
Yes, this is my judgement. It may be accurate or inaccurate, but in any case it is not random. Otherwise, you will have to admit that people who find cheaters do random choices, as well.
Key point that I make the decision for myself, I don't ask anybody to change player's status. For my point of view, there is no difference from me and people who find cheaters, since we don't have any "certification centers", "grades", etc. for such experts. All people in area are still "home made" in all companies and have very limited expertise. Well, it could be higher than mine, but this is not a gap which prevents me to make my judgements.
Basis for blocking is simple. Let me provide one example to make it short. When people start game very slow (I play bullet and blitz), make many mistakes and give me a tremendous advantage (like +5 or even +7), then disappear for dozens of seconds and get back as superpower making moves in no time in very hard positions with absolute precision (sometimes mixing with 2nd line engine moves - second-grade cheaters) and win the games, I block them in 95% of cases. If you can explain this without cheating, you are welcome. Please, don't say "they are better in end games", if you can play in no time so brilliantly middle game and end game, it wouldn't be hard to avoid stupid mistakes in openings, where chances for mistakes significantly smaller.
@Motroskin said in #42:
> Have you read what I wrote above? Could you please, re-read to make sure we are on the same page here (despite the fact that it is 5th page already :) ).
>
> Yes, this is my judgement. It may be accurate or inaccurate, but in any case it is not random. Otherwise, you will have to admit that people who find cheaters to random choices, as well.
>
> Key point that I make the decision for myself, I don't ask anybody to change player's status. For my point of view, there is no difference from me and people who find cheaters, since we don't have any "certification centers", "grades", etc. for such experts. All people in area are still "home made" in all companies and have very limited expertise. Well, it could be higher than mine, but this is not a gap which prevents me to make my judgements.
>
> Basis for blocking is simple. Let me provide one example to make it short. When people start game very slow (I play bullet and blitz), make many mistakes and give me a tremendous advantage (like +5 or even +7), then disappear for dozens of seconds and get back as superpower making moves in no time in very hard positions with absolute precision (sometimes mixing with 2nd line engine moves - second-grade cheaters) and win the games, I block them in 95% of cases. If you can explain this without cheating, you are welcome. Please, don't say "they are better in end games", if you can play in no time so brilliantly middle game and end game, it wouldn't be hard to avoid stupid mistakes in openings, where chances for mistakes significantly smaller.
I think the cheat detection algorithms are much more accurate at finding cheaters than your biased/paranoid mind! If I lose, I move on with life. It's only Lichess rating points. They don't actually mean anything! Think of playing a cheater like training. Playing a harder opponent (engine) is only going to make you better. If you really think the person cheated, report them and let the algorithms work it out.
> Have you read what I wrote above? Could you please, re-read to make sure we are on the same page here (despite the fact that it is 5th page already :) ).
>
> Yes, this is my judgement. It may be accurate or inaccurate, but in any case it is not random. Otherwise, you will have to admit that people who find cheaters to random choices, as well.
>
> Key point that I make the decision for myself, I don't ask anybody to change player's status. For my point of view, there is no difference from me and people who find cheaters, since we don't have any "certification centers", "grades", etc. for such experts. All people in area are still "home made" in all companies and have very limited expertise. Well, it could be higher than mine, but this is not a gap which prevents me to make my judgements.
>
> Basis for blocking is simple. Let me provide one example to make it short. When people start game very slow (I play bullet and blitz), make many mistakes and give me a tremendous advantage (like +5 or even +7), then disappear for dozens of seconds and get back as superpower making moves in no time in very hard positions with absolute precision (sometimes mixing with 2nd line engine moves - second-grade cheaters) and win the games, I block them in 95% of cases. If you can explain this without cheating, you are welcome. Please, don't say "they are better in end games", if you can play in no time so brilliantly middle game and end game, it wouldn't be hard to avoid stupid mistakes in openings, where chances for mistakes significantly smaller.
I think the cheat detection algorithms are much more accurate at finding cheaters than your biased/paranoid mind! If I lose, I move on with life. It's only Lichess rating points. They don't actually mean anything! Think of playing a cheater like training. Playing a harder opponent (engine) is only going to make you better. If you really think the person cheated, report them and let the algorithms work it out.
@sterobe said in #43:
> I think the cheat detection algorithms are much more accurate at finding cheaters than your biased/paranoid mind! If I lose, I move on with life. It's only Lichess rating points. They don't actually mean anything! Think of playing a cheater like training. Playing a harder opponent (engine) is only going to make you better. If you really think the person cheated, report them and let the algorithms work it out.
It is your choice and my approach doesn't affect it in any way. I don't want to fight a brick wall just because somebody want to have fun from it. They cheat, I block.
You approach doesn't work for me because:
1. You learn nothing playing against cheater, since people and engines play absolutely different chess. With people you try distraction, psychology, time pressure, deception, etc. Nothing of it works against engines.
2. Algorithms don't work it out, people do and they are quite slow with this. Sometimes it takes months to reveal a cheater. I don't want many games with them.
3. You forgot that you lose most significant thing playing with cheaters which is time. I don't want waste time on cheaters.
To put in a nutshell, can anyone here (especially people who responsible for blocking cheaters), say "We guarantee that you won't have more than one game with a cheater and we will catch him in a couple of days"? If so, I will erase all blocking on my side. If not, what we are left with? Only self-defense in a hope that some day they will be able to say so.
"While sheriff is out of the town, we are on self own and should at least be protective, not allowing bandits to kill us." :)
> I think the cheat detection algorithms are much more accurate at finding cheaters than your biased/paranoid mind! If I lose, I move on with life. It's only Lichess rating points. They don't actually mean anything! Think of playing a cheater like training. Playing a harder opponent (engine) is only going to make you better. If you really think the person cheated, report them and let the algorithms work it out.
It is your choice and my approach doesn't affect it in any way. I don't want to fight a brick wall just because somebody want to have fun from it. They cheat, I block.
You approach doesn't work for me because:
1. You learn nothing playing against cheater, since people and engines play absolutely different chess. With people you try distraction, psychology, time pressure, deception, etc. Nothing of it works against engines.
2. Algorithms don't work it out, people do and they are quite slow with this. Sometimes it takes months to reveal a cheater. I don't want many games with them.
3. You forgot that you lose most significant thing playing with cheaters which is time. I don't want waste time on cheaters.
To put in a nutshell, can anyone here (especially people who responsible for blocking cheaters), say "We guarantee that you won't have more than one game with a cheater and we will catch him in a couple of days"? If so, I will erase all blocking on my side. If not, what we are left with? Only self-defense in a hope that some day they will be able to say so.
"While sheriff is out of the town, we are on self own and should at least be protective, not allowing bandits to kill us." :)
@sterobe said in #41:
> But you don't know the people you are blocking are cheating? So you are just randomly blocking people who may or may not be cheating? It makes no sense... What are you basing your blocking system on?
Playing chess online should be enjoyable. If I am blocking someone who is not cheating but somehow playing with him feels weird (for whatever reason, maybe defensive style etc. idk) I am doing nothing wrong. I just pointed out example with Carlsen and Niemann to show that even top GM can just deny to play with someone without any proof of cheating, just cause "it feels like he is cheating".
> But you don't know the people you are blocking are cheating? So you are just randomly blocking people who may or may not be cheating? It makes no sense... What are you basing your blocking system on?
Playing chess online should be enjoyable. If I am blocking someone who is not cheating but somehow playing with him feels weird (for whatever reason, maybe defensive style etc. idk) I am doing nothing wrong. I just pointed out example with Carlsen and Niemann to show that even top GM can just deny to play with someone without any proof of cheating, just cause "it feels like he is cheating".
@Motroskin said in #40:
> So, anybody's input here could help.
Blocking does not give any input to anyone.
> So, anybody's input here could help.
Blocking does not give any input to anyone.
@Kuphel said in #45:
> Playing chess online should be enjoyable. If I am blocking someone who is not cheating but somehow playing with him feels weird (for whatever reason, maybe defensive style etc. idk) I am doing nothing wrong. I just pointed out example with Carlsen and Niemann to show that even top GM can just deny to play with someone without any proof of cheating, just cause "it feels like he is cheating".
Yes, chess is supposed to be fun. Stop worrying about other people and your rating and enjoy the game. I think if you're spending all your time worrying about cheaters and blocking hundreds of people who may not even have cheated, you have lost your way.
Have fun guys!
> Playing chess online should be enjoyable. If I am blocking someone who is not cheating but somehow playing with him feels weird (for whatever reason, maybe defensive style etc. idk) I am doing nothing wrong. I just pointed out example with Carlsen and Niemann to show that even top GM can just deny to play with someone without any proof of cheating, just cause "it feels like he is cheating".
Yes, chess is supposed to be fun. Stop worrying about other people and your rating and enjoy the game. I think if you're spending all your time worrying about cheaters and blocking hundreds of people who may not even have cheated, you have lost your way.
Have fun guys!
"All your time". It is not about worrying, it is just about not enjoying. Why are you trying to imply so much that cheating is not a problem? It is, it is bigger than Lichess or chess.com Team will admit. But - again - it is not about dealing with cheaters. If I can choose who to play with - someone who I think play fair or someone who I think play not fair, it doesn't matter if I am right or not. It does matter that choosing first one I will be happier.
@Kuphel said in #48:
> "All your time". It is not about worrying, it is just about not enjoying. Why are you trying to imply so much that cheating is not a problem? It is, it is bigger than Lichess or chess.com Team will admit. But - again - it is not about dealing with cheaters. If I can choose who to play with - someone who I think play fair or someone who I think play not fair, it doesn't matter if I am right or not. It does matter that choosing first one I will be happier.
Man is disturbed not by things, but by his views of things...
> "All your time". It is not about worrying, it is just about not enjoying. Why are you trying to imply so much that cheating is not a problem? It is, it is bigger than Lichess or chess.com Team will admit. But - again - it is not about dealing with cheaters. If I can choose who to play with - someone who I think play fair or someone who I think play not fair, it doesn't matter if I am right or not. It does matter that choosing first one I will be happier.
Man is disturbed not by things, but by his views of things...
Quoting Epictetus won't make you sound smarter. Since it is impossible to prove certain examples of cheating, it is my right to say "hey, I won't play with you again, cause it seems suspicious for me, but go ahead and play with others". I really don't know why if someone like Carlsen is doing same thing all people (including you I bet) are reacting like "good, if he is suspicious, others can just not playing with him" and FIDE is not punishing Carlsen or whatever (and due to tournament regulations, they should), but when some random player on lichess (like me) wanna do same thing, some of community stand up and saying "no blocking, you MUST TO PLAY WITH EVERYONE WHO IS NOT BANNED BY MODS, it is a problem with you, not with those players who you facing". Maybe it is, like it was problem with Carlsen, but I should have right to do same things as our SuperGM did.
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