I've been noticing a bunch of the tournaments have moved to no Berserk. Is this a recent change? Any particular motivation behind this?
"No berserk for rating-limited tournaments
Because berserking lowers the player rating"
- Code comment in github.com/ornicar/lila/commit/ed5fdc95d001a4a389b851e1ba56ce0484a21993
Because berserking lowers the player rating"
- Code comment in github.com/ornicar/lila/commit/ed5fdc95d001a4a389b851e1ba56ce0484a21993
Well, to be honest, I don't see how this resolves the problem of berserk-sandbaggers in Uxxxx tournaments, as the rating can be leaked in the usual ones.
Yeah I don't see how that makes any sense. If they're already in the tournament, then clearly they are already below the threshold, sandbagger or not. So why does it lower their rating in a tournament where there is a maximum rating matter? What do the two have to do with one another?
This changes the character of the tournaments. A single comment in the source code is all how that is communicated? Very strange.
It is true - when I play many tournaments (usually U1700 or U2000), my rating decreases. I am a player who tends to win more in games with increment and longer time. But so? Nobody coerces me to do so and lose rating. I want to try and play faster for gaining more tournament points.
It is true - when I play many tournaments (usually U1700 or U2000), my rating decreases. I am a player who tends to win more in games with increment and longer time. But so? Nobody coerces me to do so and lose rating. I want to try and play faster for gaining more tournament points.
I guess the idea behind this is related to the fact that there was some sort of stat that showed that berserking players dropped a lot of points in the UXXXX arenas so after the ending of the arena they all became underrated and the proportion was big enough to mess up with the general rating system. Sandbagger aren't such an issue because they can be spotted but a big number of underrated players after an UXXXX is a bigger problem.
@kenzaburo You're making an argument for why beserking in general is problematic with regards to ratings.
What you don't explain is why a bunch of underrated players is only problematic in tournaments with a maximum rating for entrants. Why not in all tournaments? Why would berseking even a thing, if the concern were what you describe?
What you don't explain is why a bunch of underrated players is only problematic in tournaments with a maximum rating for entrants. Why not in all tournaments? Why would berseking even a thing, if the concern were what you describe?
@Chessty_McBiggins In a UXXXX arena you have much more people of similar ratings. Say if we have this ALL BERSERK 2500 player in an OPEN ARENA he'll usually perform quite well and even gain some points, but if we have a 1900 player berserking against a 1800 player the odds are heavily inclined in favor of the non berserking player. Same thing for 1400 vs 1300 or 1500 vs 1600. But quite different for those 2400+ players.
So probably 2000+ are less risky and won't berserk against a similar rating oponent (giving him a decisive advantage), while 2000U will do it on a massive scale.
The point of someone sandbagging an UXXXX is winning it decisive thus taking all the fun from the Arena, in an open arena there will always be someone stronger unless you're 2500+ or something, so even if you sandbag you won't win.
So probably 2000+ are less risky and won't berserk against a similar rating oponent (giving him a decisive advantage), while 2000U will do it on a massive scale.
The point of someone sandbagging an UXXXX is winning it decisive thus taking all the fun from the Arena, in an open arena there will always be someone stronger unless you're 2500+ or something, so even if you sandbag you won't win.
Wow, thank you for making this change! I have personally witnessed at least 2 different players who had sandbagging accounts that did nothing except play u2000 tourneys on 100% berserk. What you end up with is a 2200+ player who plays at a u2000 level while berserking every game, but gets an extra point for every win compared to the "true" u2000 players.
@Sybotes
> A single comment in the source code is all how that is communicated? Very strange.
Because there are no channels how else that can be communicated. This is too minor change for a blogpost, for example.
@kenzaburo
The whole berserking thing messes up with the rating system, squeezing the ratings in tournaments towards 1500. Not only the berserking players lose points in tournaments, but also other players who play with underrated berserkers who don't berserk against stronger opponents, and those who play against those who were beaten by those berserkers - ad infinitum. Uxxxx tournaments are not special in this matter.
Your point about similar-rated players is kinda weird. If I berserk against a 1400-rated player it's not very likely to change the result, but when it does, the effect for my rating is catastrophic. In average the rating loss will be the same, because this is just how the rating system works.
> Sandbagger aren't such an issue because they can be spotted but a big number of underrated players after an UXXXX is a bigger problem.
Sandbagging is an issue, because the berserk-only strategy in any tournaments that actually allow berserking is a LEGAL sandbagging and you can't do much by only spotting it.
> A single comment in the source code is all how that is communicated? Very strange.
Because there are no channels how else that can be communicated. This is too minor change for a blogpost, for example.
@kenzaburo
The whole berserking thing messes up with the rating system, squeezing the ratings in tournaments towards 1500. Not only the berserking players lose points in tournaments, but also other players who play with underrated berserkers who don't berserk against stronger opponents, and those who play against those who were beaten by those berserkers - ad infinitum. Uxxxx tournaments are not special in this matter.
Your point about similar-rated players is kinda weird. If I berserk against a 1400-rated player it's not very likely to change the result, but when it does, the effect for my rating is catastrophic. In average the rating loss will be the same, because this is just how the rating system works.
> Sandbagger aren't such an issue because they can be spotted but a big number of underrated players after an UXXXX is a bigger problem.
Sandbagging is an issue, because the berserk-only strategy in any tournaments that actually allow berserking is a LEGAL sandbagging and you can't do much by only spotting it.
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