In other words, you are saying Buccha, the 80,000 Russians who have died since the war began, the maybe 15,000 Ukrainians who have died, and all of the rest is the fault of the U.S. somehow egging you on -- this is the height of absolute illusion and flaw in thinking, coupled with hatred. No one was encouraging you to invade Ukraine; quite the opposite.
no this was conventional wisdom, warned against by both conservatives (Henry Kissinger and John Mearsheimer) and liberals (Stephen Cohen) for decades. Yeltsin allowed the US and the Russian oligarchs to loot Russia and bring it into social disintegration in the 90's. It initially supported Putin as Yeltsin's heir, but when he made it evident he opposed this it turned on him. Barack Obama admitted that Russia had an existential interest in opposing NATO expansion into Ukraine, but Trump and now Biden, heedlessly, adopted a more aggressive policy, and the result is the destruction of the Ukrainian economy and the evisceration of what was once one of the most powerful armies in Europe. so far, as in all its proxy wars, the US is paying a low price for all this carnage, except for trillions of dollars lost, which mainly affects the US population and not the policy makers in Washington DC. There is never real accountability in Washington for millions of lost lives and a declining economy at home; oh the 2 parties trade electoral offices back and forth, but the policies continue. no national leaders ever get prosecuted.
Quoted as it got bumped:
>This is unimaginably insane.
>This is the equivalent of shooting person B, and saying person C "Made you do it," while about 200 other persons are continually saying "Put down the weapon. Do not shoot."
You have invaded Ukraine for no reason other than hatred and greed.
All the rest is along the same lines as the lies "We will not invade Ukraine." And senseless others.
If you ever believe one word that Putin or Putin-followers, Putin-propaganda-pushers, say then you have made a grave error.
>This is unimaginably insane.
>This is the equivalent of shooting person B, and saying person C "Made you do it," while about 200 other persons are continually saying "Put down the weapon. Do not shoot."
You have invaded Ukraine for no reason other than hatred and greed.
All the rest is along the same lines as the lies "We will not invade Ukraine." And senseless others.
If you ever believe one word that Putin or Putin-followers, Putin-propaganda-pushers, say then you have made a grave error.
I'm saying specifically Bucha was a massacre most likely carried out by the Ukrainians themselves, and that the willingness of Ukraine to tolerate the US instigated and backed coup in 2014 has cost it dearly, from the 450,000 casualties including 150,000 dead in its military to its badly damaged electrical infrastructure. and when you say "you" you have no idea what you are talking about, you are just reflexively falling into the smear mode of pretending I am Russian, or for that matter a Putin supporter.
@pretzelattack1 said in #44:
> I'm saying specifically Bucha was a massacre most likely carried out by the Ukrainians themselves,
Yes I know what you are saying.
Somehow I remember a Lichess blog post at the beginning of this war, the phrase "jingoistic" was bandied about.
I was about to re-iterate, are you blaming Atrocities like Buccha -- war crimes like this, on the U.S.? And you beat me to it by literally saying that it was Ukraine doing so.
> I'm saying specifically Bucha was a massacre most likely carried out by the Ukrainians themselves,
Yes I know what you are saying.
Somehow I remember a Lichess blog post at the beginning of this war, the phrase "jingoistic" was bandied about.
I was about to re-iterate, are you blaming Atrocities like Buccha -- war crimes like this, on the U.S.? And you beat me to it by literally saying that it was Ukraine doing so.
You encourage propaganda views from Putin at every time I have ever seen you post.
yeah, and I'm saying Saddam did not have wmd's, and Iraqi soldiers did not throw babies on the floor, and that Colin Powell did not hold up a vial of anthrax at the UN when he propagated the lie that Saddam had wmd's. furthermore I am saying that the US intel agencies earlier in the war uncritically regurgitated statement from Ukriane propaganda earlier in the war, before Ukraine was forced to fire one of its spokespeople for lying about Russian war crimes.
and not "atrocities like Bucha", Bucha specifically, for reasons Scott Ritter, who did a lot to expose US lies in Iraq, has elucidated. try not to misquote me. the bodies were not reported for a few days, when they appeared they were putrifying, and we know that the far right/Nazi affiliated part of the Ukrainian army had already threatened to kill any Ukrainians who it felt collaborated with Russians, even to the extent of accepting aid.
where are you from? you didn't recognize that Larson cartoon, and he is still very well known in the US. You don't seem to be aware of the twitter file revelations by US journalist Matt Taibbi, which reveal the massive propaganda effort in the US by the Pentagon and the CIA to demonize Russia, including the whole "Russiagate" conspiracy. what do you think of those revelations?
and not "atrocities like Bucha", Bucha specifically, for reasons Scott Ritter, who did a lot to expose US lies in Iraq, has elucidated. try not to misquote me. the bodies were not reported for a few days, when they appeared they were putrifying, and we know that the far right/Nazi affiliated part of the Ukrainian army had already threatened to kill any Ukrainians who it felt collaborated with Russians, even to the extent of accepting aid.
where are you from? you didn't recognize that Larson cartoon, and he is still very well known in the US. You don't seem to be aware of the twitter file revelations by US journalist Matt Taibbi, which reveal the massive propaganda effort in the US by the Pentagon and the CIA to demonize Russia, including the whole "Russiagate" conspiracy. what do you think of those revelations?
@Perchatkin said in #17:
> Tell this to the people of Donbass, who have been suffering for the ninth year. But Ukrainians only care about their own asses.
The people of Donbas suffered all these years because of Russia and its mercenaries who came to Ukraine with weapons in 2014.
If the Russians are so worried about Donbas, why have you wiped dozens of Donbas cities off the face of the earth since the beginning of the full-scale invasion?
Mariupol, Severodonetsk, Rubizhne, Volnovakha, etc., etc. these are all cities with a Russian-speaking population, these cities have been wiped out. In a few months, they became more destroyed than Donetsk due to "8 years of bombing".
Where is the logic?
> Tell this to the people of Donbass, who have been suffering for the ninth year. But Ukrainians only care about their own asses.
The people of Donbas suffered all these years because of Russia and its mercenaries who came to Ukraine with weapons in 2014.
If the Russians are so worried about Donbas, why have you wiped dozens of Donbas cities off the face of the earth since the beginning of the full-scale invasion?
Mariupol, Severodonetsk, Rubizhne, Volnovakha, etc., etc. these are all cities with a Russian-speaking population, these cities have been wiped out. In a few months, they became more destroyed than Donetsk due to "8 years of bombing".
Where is the logic?
@artemiusua said in #48:
> The people of Donbas suffered all these years because of Russia and its mercenaries who came to Ukraine with weapons in 2014.
>
> If the Russians are so worried about Donbas, why have you wiped dozens of Donbas cities off the face of the earth since the beginning of the full-scale invasion?
>
> Mariupol, Severodonetsk, Rubizhne, Volnovakha, etc., etc. these are all cities with a Russian-speaking population, these cities have been wiped out. In a few months, they became more destroyed than Donetsk due to "8 years of bombing".
> Where is the logic?
Thank you for this post.
There is no more logic in their actions (both the dictator and those who praise, push for and follow him, than a mad man screaming in a cage. It's just the nature of evil. In the end -- Peace will prevail; Sanity, Light, Truth and Goodness will survive and will prevail, and it is indeed because of the calm and assured posts of posters like you. Much appreciated from myself; have a great day.
> The people of Donbas suffered all these years because of Russia and its mercenaries who came to Ukraine with weapons in 2014.
>
> If the Russians are so worried about Donbas, why have you wiped dozens of Donbas cities off the face of the earth since the beginning of the full-scale invasion?
>
> Mariupol, Severodonetsk, Rubizhne, Volnovakha, etc., etc. these are all cities with a Russian-speaking population, these cities have been wiped out. In a few months, they became more destroyed than Donetsk due to "8 years of bombing".
> Where is the logic?
Thank you for this post.
There is no more logic in their actions (both the dictator and those who praise, push for and follow him, than a mad man screaming in a cage. It's just the nature of evil. In the end -- Peace will prevail; Sanity, Light, Truth and Goodness will survive and will prevail, and it is indeed because of the calm and assured posts of posters like you. Much appreciated from myself; have a great day.
i encourage questioning the US government, not "propaganda" from Putin, on a consistent basis, when it involves wasting trillions of dollars, thousands of US lives, and millions of lives lost in countries we have invaded or controlled via coup. this is a 70 year project on the part of the US, and it is not constitutional. if you are familiar with the US, you would know about the First Amendment--that is why it is the first amendment in the Bill of Rights, to allow citizens to question the US government without the Bills of Attainder or Star Chamber controls that were prevalent in Europe at the time. If you are familiar with the US, you are aware that we have not followed the Constitutional processes of starting wars since the end of World War 2. nevertheless, these proxy wars and coups have cost, according to a wikipedia article, 6 million lives and trillions of dollars.
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