This certainly comes as no surprise. From a European perspective, the British have always led a life of their own in many ways, having a language, culture, currency, driving orientation etc. etc. of their own, while also sharing a lot with other nations, including the lineage of monarchs in Europe and involvement in major historic and military events. The EU is an artificial formation that is not malignant yet but not friendly anymore, either, because of the likelihood of becoming a federation in the future and, recently, because of the reckless refugee policy. I wish good luck to the UK. Only time will tell, not stock exchanges or banks.
Do not forget that already in the Rome treaty it was agreed upon that the European Union was aiming for political unity. With membership every country automatically accepted a political union. Why complaining now? However a monetary union can not work without having harmonized the the fiscal sector/taxation among all members first.
That's your interpretation, and it was 60 years ago.
In any case, do YOU want political unification of Europe? If so, why?
In any case, do YOU want political unification of Europe? If so, why?
#23 JaquesD
It´s the only way to compete with the big nations (US, China, Russia) economicly and politically in a globalized world. British, french, german nationalism belongs to the past.
It´s the only way to compete with the big nations (US, China, Russia) economicly and politically in a globalized world. British, french, german nationalism belongs to the past.
A nation without a healthy sense of nationalism is like a man without his balls. No posture or identity. When was the last time you actually felt you were competing with a person in China economically or politically?
That's how they sold the EU to the people, but the exact opposite turned out to be the case: the EU have considerably weakened European states and their people, without compensating this by a strength at the continental scale. And it has created new tensions internal to Europe as well. And that's why the people have changed their opinion about it.
If you ask why it has turned out that way, there are various reasons. One of the reasons is that many EU activists actually wanted this to happen. Just like you they saw sovereign nations as "nationalism". Their deeper idea is not that it's obsolete, or inefficient. But that it is morally bad and that destroying it is a good thing.
This is an extremely seriously flawed understanding of the world and it would turn to utter disaster if it was really implemented. Fortunately it won't.
If you ask why it has turned out that way, there are various reasons. One of the reasons is that many EU activists actually wanted this to happen. Just like you they saw sovereign nations as "nationalism". Their deeper idea is not that it's obsolete, or inefficient. But that it is morally bad and that destroying it is a good thing.
This is an extremely seriously flawed understanding of the world and it would turn to utter disaster if it was really implemented. Fortunately it won't.
PlayBach, I agree with you but I wouldn't use the word "nationalism". Not because it is "loaded", but because it suggests an exclusive focus on the nation, just like "liberalism" suggests an exclusive focus on individual liberties.
I want nation, sovereignty, collective freedom and individual freedom, all of them, correctly articulated and balanced. That's the traditional goal of politics. The nation needs to be soevereign and its people need to defend it and be patriots so that they can freely and stably govern themselves according to their culture and identity.
I guess Eastern countries like Latvia are well placed to understand these things, because they have been the victims of an attempted assimilation by the USSR, and when the USSR collapsed under its weight, diversity and misguided ideas, they immediately re-formed as proud nation States. Some still fear Russia and the EU serves them as a protection against Russian threats, and also as a help to develop economically. But they don't want to undergo forced political unification as this would be like going back to USSR. Is this is a correct description of your state of mind?
I want nation, sovereignty, collective freedom and individual freedom, all of them, correctly articulated and balanced. That's the traditional goal of politics. The nation needs to be soevereign and its people need to defend it and be patriots so that they can freely and stably govern themselves according to their culture and identity.
I guess Eastern countries like Latvia are well placed to understand these things, because they have been the victims of an attempted assimilation by the USSR, and when the USSR collapsed under its weight, diversity and misguided ideas, they immediately re-formed as proud nation States. Some still fear Russia and the EU serves them as a protection against Russian threats, and also as a help to develop economically. But they don't want to undergo forced political unification as this would be like going back to USSR. Is this is a correct description of your state of mind?
To people who would like to think deeper about these things I would recommend this book: www.amazon.com/Significance-Borders-Thierry-Baudet/dp/9004228136 It's a long but accessible book. I'm not associated to the author in any way.
#24 PlayBach
I am not talking about competition with individual chinese people but about competition between nations. How can a partly deindustrialized nation like GB or Latvia compete alone with China on the world market?
Mission impossible!
I am not talking about competition with individual chinese people but about competition between nations. How can a partly deindustrialized nation like GB or Latvia compete alone with China on the world market?
Mission impossible!
@JacquesD
Just a few posts and one suddenly finds oneself deeply immersed in a major topic the discussion of which is not likely to end before long. Pro-Brusselians and pro-Russians would produce a reply instantly but I need to think before I can say anything more.
@stonecollector
When was the last time you were completely satisfied with stuff displaying 'Made in P.R.C.'? This competition you're speaking of is basically abstract, from the high shelve of macro-economics and share markets and also limited to a certain range of commodities.
Just a few posts and one suddenly finds oneself deeply immersed in a major topic the discussion of which is not likely to end before long. Pro-Brusselians and pro-Russians would produce a reply instantly but I need to think before I can say anything more.
@stonecollector
When was the last time you were completely satisfied with stuff displaying 'Made in P.R.C.'? This competition you're speaking of is basically abstract, from the high shelve of macro-economics and share markets and also limited to a certain range of commodities.
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