Suggestion: Antichess 30-move rule • page 3/3 • Lichess Feedback • lichess.org

KvK is draw, this is just ridiculous that the system still do not recognize it.
You are all talking about time pressure, but what if both players have time ? I already witnessed situations where one players do not want to draw and plays 50 moves KvK betting for a mistake ...

KvK is a draw situation and should be recognized a such. If we follow your reasoning Bishop vs Bishop should not be recognized as a mistake since one can be faster than the other.

KvK is draw, this is just ridiculous that the system still do not recognize it. You are all talking about time pressure, but what if both players have time ? I already witnessed situations where one players do not want to draw and plays 50 moves KvK betting for a mistake ... KvK is a draw situation and should be recognized a such. If we follow your reasoning Bishop vs Bishop should not be recognized as a mistake since one can be faster than the other.

Karagialis

#22

@TheBigNico

No, Bishop vs Bishop is different: Other than time, it is not possible to lose that position with either side. No "helpmate" is possible. Such situations are declared an automatic draw in standard chess (you call the arbiter in OTB chess).

In KvK endgame (and many others) there is margin for error, that's why we think that it cannot be declared an automatic draw.

I think we can discuss a 30, 50 or 75-move limitation, but an automatic draw is out of question.

@TheBigNico No, Bishop vs Bishop is different: Other than time, it is not possible to lose that position with either side. No "helpmate" is possible. Such situations are declared an automatic draw in standard chess (you call the arbiter in OTB chess). In KvK endgame (and many others) there is margin for error, that's why we think that it cannot be declared an automatic draw. I think we can discuss a 30, 50 or 75-move limitation, but an automatic draw is out of question.

TheBigNico

#23

@Karagialis but isn't the margin for error is at 99% due to time ?

FInLIp

#24

Time is part of the game. You have limited resources at the start of the game in terms of time.

Risky-Chess

#25

What if we just stopped discussion about this topic?
Just let developers decide what to do...if they will make KvK an automatic draw or not,you can't argue against it.

What if we just stopped discussion about this topic? Just let developers decide what to do...if they will make KvK an automatic draw or not,you can't argue against it.

tolius

edited

#26

Being a slow player and having lost a lot of K-vs-K games due to time pressure, I'm completely against the 30-move rule. There are many endgames where you need even more than 50 moves to win. However, as in chess, I would prefer to use the 50-move rule. A few examples where you need more than 30 moves to win:

https://lichess.org/study/KEozNnkq/0TbFMG0O

https://lichess.org/study/KEozNnkq/t9LL0jWM

https://lichess.org/study/KEozNnkq/63f2tUed

OK, I agree that these wins are difficult. But there are a lot of games where good players win RK-vs-K games, using more than 30 moves. It's a draw but you have to carefully choose your moves so as not to lose. KK vs K is also a draw but I won a few those games, forcing the opponent's king to move into the corner where it loses.

In brief: 30 moves are too few for antichess. For K vs K it's enough, but do you really want to make exceptions?

Nevertheless, I would prefer to have a solution for this related situation:

https://lichess.org/study/KEozNnkq/iIVlqHO5

White cannot win but, with an increment and even with the 30-move rule, what do you think, how many moves white can make in this situation? 200, 300, 400? Again, being black I cannot lose (theoretically I can win but only theoretically). Now imagine that my opponent does not accept a draw. It can easily take more than 10 minutes to complete this game if, for example, the time control is 3+2.

Being a slow player and having lost a lot of K-vs-K games due to time pressure, I'm completely against the 30-move rule. There are many endgames where you need even more than 50 moves to win. However, as in chess, I would prefer to use the 50-move rule. A few examples where you need more than 30 moves to win: https://lichess.org/study/KEozNnkq/0TbFMG0O https://lichess.org/study/KEozNnkq/t9LL0jWM https://lichess.org/study/KEozNnkq/63f2tUed OK, I agree that these wins are difficult. But there are a lot of games where good players win RK-vs-K games, using more than 30 moves. It's a draw but you have to carefully choose your moves so as not to lose. KK vs K is also a draw but I won a few those games, forcing the opponent's king to move into the corner where it loses. In brief: 30 moves are too few for antichess. For K vs K it's enough, but do you really want to make exceptions? Nevertheless, I would prefer to have a solution for this related situation: https://lichess.org/study/KEozNnkq/iIVlqHO5 White cannot win but, with an increment and even with the 30-move rule, what do you think, how many moves white can make in this situation? 200, 300, 400? Again, being black I cannot lose (theoretically I can win but only theoretically). Now imagine that my opponent does not accept a draw. It can easily take more than 10 minutes to complete this game if, for example, the time control is 3+2.