it would have been a draw if there was one more move. I shouldnt be talking tho since im a low rating
@Sicilian67 said in #10:
> OMG makes sense? Out of any common sense.... the pawn is on g7 so of course it must be captured else it queens... no sane player would promote to a K.... when rules don't follow common sense, they'd be changed, IMHO....
This topic comes up every couple of days...
The current rule does come with some benefits as well. It is easy to understand, and needs no interpretation on the arbiter part. Otherwise, it is really hard to draw a line, and every case has to be judged manually, asking questions like "how likely is it that the player loses this". That's a terrible alternative. (And of course, there's always the option to play with increment.)
Of course it hurts when you lose that way, and I have surely lost like this before, and I absolutely hated it. :-)
BTW, the last king move was highly inaccurate, as queening would have immediately saved the draw, even if the queen is not captured. Instead, Bg8! blocking the pawn would have secured the win given the clock situation.
> OMG makes sense? Out of any common sense.... the pawn is on g7 so of course it must be captured else it queens... no sane player would promote to a K.... when rules don't follow common sense, they'd be changed, IMHO....
This topic comes up every couple of days...
The current rule does come with some benefits as well. It is easy to understand, and needs no interpretation on the arbiter part. Otherwise, it is really hard to draw a line, and every case has to be judged manually, asking questions like "how likely is it that the player loses this". That's a terrible alternative. (And of course, there's always the option to play with increment.)
Of course it hurts when you lose that way, and I have surely lost like this before, and I absolutely hated it. :-)
BTW, the last king move was highly inaccurate, as queening would have immediately saved the draw, even if the queen is not captured. Instead, Bg8! blocking the pawn would have secured the win given the clock situation.
the other unplesant aspect is the opponent not immediately capturing my pawn, his K was "dancing" around it... now it's clear he was speculating on a not so fair rule...
@nadjarostowa said in #12:
> The current rule does come with some benefits as well. It is easy to understand, and needs no interpretation on the arbiter part.
Well, some interpretation based on common sense would prevent speculation as I was saying before. Anyway, thanks all for the clarifications
> The current rule does come with some benefits as well. It is easy to understand, and needs no interpretation on the arbiter part.
Well, some interpretation based on common sense would prevent speculation as I was saying before. Anyway, thanks all for the clarifications
Just out of interest - not quibbling with the result as so far as I was aware it only has to be able to legally create a mating position with that mixture of material on the board, regardless of the actual positions - but is there even a legal series of moves that gives rise to a win for Black here? I'm struggling to see one.
a) If the pawn does not promote but just stays where it is then there is no mate on the board, whether or not the pawn is captured. The only mate would arise with the King in the "right" corner, checked by the Bishop and with its retreats cut off by the opposing King and its own piece.
b) If it promotes to a Queen then there is no legal position on the board that is mate (since any position where the Queen blocks the King from moving out of check is one where she can also interpose, and once captured the King has a retreat square.
c) Seems that what is true of the Queen is also true of the Knight. Can't see how to construct a legal mate using a Knight.
d) That leaves the Bishop, but only seems to work for a dark squared Bishop, since a light squared Bishop can always interpose. And there is no legal way to make a dark squared Bishop.
a) If the pawn does not promote but just stays where it is then there is no mate on the board, whether or not the pawn is captured. The only mate would arise with the King in the "right" corner, checked by the Bishop and with its retreats cut off by the opposing King and its own piece.
b) If it promotes to a Queen then there is no legal position on the board that is mate (since any position where the Queen blocks the King from moving out of check is one where she can also interpose, and once captured the King has a retreat square.
c) Seems that what is true of the Queen is also true of the Knight. Can't see how to construct a legal mate using a Knight.
d) That leaves the Bishop, but only seems to work for a dark squared Bishop, since a light squared Bishop can always interpose. And there is no legal way to make a dark squared Bishop.
@Damiano72 said in #15:
> c) Seems that what is true of the Queen is also true of the Knight. Can't see how to construct a legal mate using a Knight.
Indeed, only a knight works here:
lichess.org/editor/KN6/1b6/1k6/8/8/8/8/8_w_-_-_0_1?color=white
> c) Seems that what is true of the Queen is also true of the Knight. Can't see how to construct a legal mate using a Knight.
Indeed, only a knight works here:
lichess.org/editor/KN6/1b6/1k6/8/8/8/8/8_w_-_-_0_1?color=white
@Damiano72 said in #15:
> but is there even a legal series of moves that gives rise to a win for Black here? I'm struggling to see one.
[Variant "From Position"]
[FEN "8/5kP1/8/3b4/8/4K3/8/8 w - - 3 68"]
68. g8=N Ke6 69. Kf2 Ke5 70. Kg1 Bc4 71. Nh6 Kd4 72. Nf5+ Ke4 73. Nh4 Ke3 74. Nf3 Bf1 75. Kh1 Kf2 76. Nh2 Bg2#
> but is there even a legal series of moves that gives rise to a win for Black here? I'm struggling to see one.
[Variant "From Position"]
[FEN "8/5kP1/8/3b4/8/4K3/8/8 w - - 3 68"]
68. g8=N Ke6 69. Kf2 Ke5 70. Kg1 Bc4 71. Nh6 Kd4 72. Nf5+ Ke4 73. Nh4 Ke3 74. Nf3 Bf1 75. Kh1 Kf2 76. Nh2 Bg2#
Thanks both!
And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is why my rating is what it is...
And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is why my rating is what it is...
Yes, but Lichess doesn't look at the position, it is possible with a h-pawn, king in that corner, and the side with a bishop can still checkmate.
@nadjarostowa said in #16:
> Indeed, only a knight works here:
>
> lichess.org/editor/KN6/1b6/1k6/8/8/8/8/8_w_-_-_0_1?color=white
That's true, since time pressure, you can play randomly and make a position like that, although I doubt someone's that stupid.
> Indeed, only a knight works here:
>
> lichess.org/editor/KN6/1b6/1k6/8/8/8/8/8_w_-_-_0_1?color=white
That's true, since time pressure, you can play randomly and make a position like that, although I doubt someone's that stupid.
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