(Quotations from Sleepy Gary #9)
>"Abortions of convenience", the problem I have with your guys' restriction, is that what about when birth control fails?
I used to imagine that failed birth control was common... But I had premarital intercourse for 2 decades and while there were a few 'scares,' these were never actual pregnancies, and I stopped being scared. I lived with my wife and had premarital relations with her on the regular for 5-6 years before marriage... when we started trying to get pregnant, i thought, "Oh no, are we going to have fertility issues? Was the reason we never had any serious pregnancy scare going to be due to infertility?"
We proceeded to have unprotected intercourse twice in a week, but then got into a fight, and then she missed her period... It was basically a "one shot, one kill" situation.
So, while I understand that there is some amount of failure, I am skeptical that it is actually commonplace.
>You think it's a convenient choice? What if you're a teenager from a poor background, or a college student 1/2 of the way through school with huge debt and no job or degree? Our country has virtually 0 support for poor and skilless parents who find themselves in that situation. Should the potential life outweigh the agency, ambitions, and plans of the tangible lives who ignited its existence?
Our difference is perhaps in that we view people as deserving what they get from the poor choice they make. Obviously, nobody deserves death, homelessness, etc., but it is the case that if I were to have gotten a girl pregnant in University, I would have to adjust my life around this forever, or make another sacrifice of encouraging the child's adoption into another family.
Riding a motorcycle has a risk: even when careful and doing the right thing, you can be killed by a drunk driver or trucker. Motorcyclists do not deserve to die even though they are doing a dangerous hobby / transportation mode, but it is a fact that this choice does come with drawbacks.
My parents told me if I got a girl pregnant, I would have to marry her & keep the baby, and "STAY IN THE ARMY FOREVER" / "GO WORK CONSTRUCTION." Fair enough. I do not see the injustice in this.
Complaining that pregnancy resulted from sex, even when using protection, is like complaining that you got Knocked Out while fighting in a boxing match. Of course this can happen. If you really do not want this at all, you shouldn't go in the ring.
>The purtian argument against having sex at all if you're not ready for a child is completely bullshit to me. Sex is an important part of human joy and expression. It can and should be explored by adults who want to, and are not ready to raise a child yet.
In Asia, the majority of people are raised by parents who are religionless. Christians account for maybe half of the people, and the Buddhists who actually are part of the Sangha community are mostly retirees and are perhaps less than ten per cent of the population. Yet, a girl who does not 'put out' is just as likely an atheist as a Christian -- it is a question of what they want for their futures.
Sex is a physical act that can be substituted for other physical acts. It can be profound, yes - it can create new people. But you can also pay a woman $15 downtown, never ask her name, and never remember her face, and be done with the transaction on your lunch time & still eat a hamburger before heading back to work.
The reason that your grandparents are conservatives is because they met enough people who screwed up with their irresponsibility.
It isn't a "hang-up" - in most countries, people who do all of the right things and never have a child out of wedlock still end up poor. The idea that there is some entitlement to sleep with people freely with no consequences or life has no meaning is novel.
There's something rather crude about hating responsibility for the obvious so much that you will pay a doctor to cut it up with forceps & remove it with a vacuum.
>"Abortions of convenience", the problem I have with your guys' restriction, is that what about when birth control fails?
I used to imagine that failed birth control was common... But I had premarital intercourse for 2 decades and while there were a few 'scares,' these were never actual pregnancies, and I stopped being scared. I lived with my wife and had premarital relations with her on the regular for 5-6 years before marriage... when we started trying to get pregnant, i thought, "Oh no, are we going to have fertility issues? Was the reason we never had any serious pregnancy scare going to be due to infertility?"
We proceeded to have unprotected intercourse twice in a week, but then got into a fight, and then she missed her period... It was basically a "one shot, one kill" situation.
So, while I understand that there is some amount of failure, I am skeptical that it is actually commonplace.
>You think it's a convenient choice? What if you're a teenager from a poor background, or a college student 1/2 of the way through school with huge debt and no job or degree? Our country has virtually 0 support for poor and skilless parents who find themselves in that situation. Should the potential life outweigh the agency, ambitions, and plans of the tangible lives who ignited its existence?
Our difference is perhaps in that we view people as deserving what they get from the poor choice they make. Obviously, nobody deserves death, homelessness, etc., but it is the case that if I were to have gotten a girl pregnant in University, I would have to adjust my life around this forever, or make another sacrifice of encouraging the child's adoption into another family.
Riding a motorcycle has a risk: even when careful and doing the right thing, you can be killed by a drunk driver or trucker. Motorcyclists do not deserve to die even though they are doing a dangerous hobby / transportation mode, but it is a fact that this choice does come with drawbacks.
My parents told me if I got a girl pregnant, I would have to marry her & keep the baby, and "STAY IN THE ARMY FOREVER" / "GO WORK CONSTRUCTION." Fair enough. I do not see the injustice in this.
Complaining that pregnancy resulted from sex, even when using protection, is like complaining that you got Knocked Out while fighting in a boxing match. Of course this can happen. If you really do not want this at all, you shouldn't go in the ring.
>The purtian argument against having sex at all if you're not ready for a child is completely bullshit to me. Sex is an important part of human joy and expression. It can and should be explored by adults who want to, and are not ready to raise a child yet.
In Asia, the majority of people are raised by parents who are religionless. Christians account for maybe half of the people, and the Buddhists who actually are part of the Sangha community are mostly retirees and are perhaps less than ten per cent of the population. Yet, a girl who does not 'put out' is just as likely an atheist as a Christian -- it is a question of what they want for their futures.
Sex is a physical act that can be substituted for other physical acts. It can be profound, yes - it can create new people. But you can also pay a woman $15 downtown, never ask her name, and never remember her face, and be done with the transaction on your lunch time & still eat a hamburger before heading back to work.
The reason that your grandparents are conservatives is because they met enough people who screwed up with their irresponsibility.
It isn't a "hang-up" - in most countries, people who do all of the right things and never have a child out of wedlock still end up poor. The idea that there is some entitlement to sleep with people freely with no consequences or life has no meaning is novel.
There's something rather crude about hating responsibility for the obvious so much that you will pay a doctor to cut it up with forceps & remove it with a vacuum.
