Lichess Bans Keyboard

@BTRex2010 said in #81:
> so basically if u don't like kb, then use it?
>
> but then you would become someone you hate...

Circular argument.

KB is unfair -> You hate keyboard -> You don't use keyboard -> KB is unfair.

If you take out the premise that KB is unfair, your argument falls apart.

@TAUTKUS said in #82:
> @bibbymove RE:#70
>
> "2) the very nature of holding shift and randomly moving your mouse around to win a game at the end in a drawn endgame even if down 10 seconds"
>
> I'm sorry how do you get to the endgame in less than 5 seconds but fail to convert to a draw up 10 seconds?

In hyper you get 30 seconds could be a situation with opposite colour bishops after 20s used. You have one second left but would just aimlessly flurry your mouse around with your cheating device and secure the win despite clearly being the one who 'should' lose if playing fairly.

I mean if lichess wants stuff to be so fair, why would they ban keyboard? it's just another advantage for people with bad mousses. Like people with bad internet, they added lag comp. Lag is sort of an extension and if they ban keyboard only makes sense for them to take away lag, right?

@clasherbabo said in #90:
> No.
>
> - the same thing could be said about mouse. If you try out different premoves with mouse, only one will get played. That's the same thing as keyboard, just slower. It's like the difference between watching a video at 60 FPS and 1 FPS. The second one will not look like a video, but its fundamentally the same.
> - Its literally not random moves, every move is a decision made, its not like I choose a set of possible moves and the computer picks a random legal one. What move exactly is played depends on the circumstances, like with mouse. Keyboard has no RNG that picks a move for you, you can look at the code to verify that.
> - If you make an illegal move with mouse, it will also be cancelled. That doesn't mean the lichess board decides a move for you. Like with keyboard: Every move will be discarded until you make a legal move.

I'm not talking about true randomness here, which probably doesn't exist. It's the speed that makes it random. Using the extension allows you to circle through the state of possible moves at a speed that will pick the next legal move almost instantly, and this is what essentially makes it a random move generator. Circling your mouse around the piece picks a move at a speed that is impossible to do without it. Not _true_ randomness, of course, but just as random as throwing a dice. You can't say the same about using a mouse; picking the departure and the destination squares is a much more conscious (and slower) process.

@Assios said in #95:
> You can't say the same about using a mouse; picking the departure and the destination squares is a much more conscious (and slower) process.

Maybe you can say that about the very strong mouse players, but that surely isn't the case for the average Joe. The average mouse player will also just do woodpushing when they are low on time, the same way some keyboarders do it.

Your argument is not different in any way from "keyboard is faster". Yes, keyboard is faster. But that doesn't make it inherently unfair.

It still takes SOME skill to use keyboard

Firstly, I still do not get why there is such a huge discussion about keyboard being fair or not. I mean it does not make any sense to play competitive speed chess with different input methods and different connections. Now people will say that there is always a difference because some people have a better mouse / mousepad and others have a worse setup. But from my experience the difference between good and bad mouse is super small compared to the huge difference between keyboard and mouse. And with such a huge difference it does not make sense to play competitive in my view. It's like racing in formula 1 with a normal car. You can still win with a normal car but nobody will do it because you are not competitive. And that's why there are extra races for normal cars because driving normal cars requires a different skill than driving formula 1 car.

So, if you want to make keyboard and mouse players happy you have to implement something like kb-only and mouse-only tournaments/matchmaking. But I am pretty sure this won't happen so you have to decide whether mouse players or keyboard players are more important for lichess speed chess.

1.Pro-kb solution is the current one.
2.Pro-mouse solution would be ban kb.

Both are bad solutions in my view because a huge amount of players is excluded with one of the solutions. (1 forces mouse players to use kb to be competitive / 2 forces kb players to use mouse) Because there is huge community for both input methods I would really appreciate lichess to split ultrabullet/hyperbullet to no-kb/everything allowed.

I am mouse player and there is only (!) one reason why I do not like keyboard and it is the fact that being very fast with mouse is not rewarding at all on lichess but it was a core part of being good in ultra/hyperbullet in the earlier days before kb grew up. It's just kinda sad that this skill got partly useless.

@BTRex2010 said in #94:
> I mean if lichess wants stuff to be so fair, why would they ban keyboard? it's just another advantage for people with bad mousses. Like people with bad internet, they added lag comp. Lag is sort of an extension and if they ban keyboard only makes sense for them to take away lag, right?

The thing is that it isn't only people who are lagging, it is the 1800+ speed demons who jump into the 2000+. most of the laggers probably don't even know about it too and it's back to my point earlier, spread the word to everyone(which is impossible in my mind) or take it away. ig it is just easier for lichess to take away

@HyperCloxy said in #98:
>So, if you want to make keyboard and mouse players happy you have to implement something like kb-only and mouse-only tournaments/matchmaking. But I am pretty sure this won't happen so you have to decide whether mouse players or keyboard players are more important for lichess speed chess.

Smart but how would lichess be able to know that? they would have to make some kind of special connection with the extension to know you have it or not. im just not sure about how they will know who and who doesn't have kb