Ukrainian Missiles Strike Poland • page 2/3 • Off-Topic Discussion • lichess.org

@kazanchess said in #10:
> The title of that topic is wrong, clear provocation from okraine to scary EU to get more ammo
Yes and the OP is obviously an undercover Ukrainian agent paid by Zelensky.

Rookitiki

#12

@BorisOspasky said in #8:
> Didn't the Patriot missile system track incoming missiles in Iraq? I know the british military had the technology years ago to detect where artillery was firing from and return fire to those positions. Surely things have moved on technologically since then.
>
> Im a bit surprised that they've not been able to say more precisely where 'that missile' came from - be it from Russian forces or Ukrainian.
>
> Although given that there was massive misinformation over WMD in Iraq, knowing who to trust is not as clear cut as it should be. JMO.

due to russian superior range and firepower (ammunition) at most fronts the ukrainians seem to use their superior recon and scouting to deploy artillery only for 5-6 shots before unpacking and retreating. they dont lay much ground fire, many barrages only go off if a drone has eyes on target (to affirm the target and help recalibrate the cannon). thats what i saw 1 or 2 weeks ago on TV (where they probably dont show off their most valueable weapons to camera teams, but you get an idea what basic problems arise).

about the detection stuff: thats maybe sensitive technology, i heard you have to stand still with the vehicles often times for this to work or even unpack stuff. so its easy to miss something while your on the move (or in the wrong area) i suppose - dont take my word on it tho.

bfchessguy

edited

#13

@kazanchess said in #10:
> The title of that topic is wrong, clear provocation from okraine to scary EU to get more ammo

Sure, and when putina is ordering to send missiles close to borders with NATO countries he's surely not hoping that anti missile defense will miss the target and land in NATO country. ̧

F.. typical muppet double standard.

BorisOspasky

#14

@Rookitiki Good comment! I think the Ukrainians have shown far more tactical nous than the Russians. Their use of available technology has been far superior.

Otienimous

#15

Let me explain the situation as follows. A horrible incident happened, one that cost the lives of two innocent people. And while people die all the time, it does not diminish the severity of this incident, because I am not quite willing to visit the families of these men and tell them that they shouldn't worry as numerous children in Africa perish from hunger at the same time. Hence, as we acknowledge that it shouldn't have happened, we are looking for someone at fault - it is in human nature, I think. And here are the possibilities...

First of all, most of the evidence for now seems to show that the explosion was caused by an Ukrainian S300 air defence missile, so we could blame the Ukrainian government and army. Of course, they are using these missiles to defend their civilians and critical infrastructure from Russian airstrikes, fully conscious that it can (rarely) cause accidental deaths and injuries of people different than originally targeted. They are effectively facing something reminiscent of the trolley dilemma, so finding them at fault depends on what one thinks about this dilemma.

Second of all, as we stated, these missiles would not have to be used if not for Russian airstrikes. Thus, we could blame the Russian government and army for targeting Ukrainian civilians and infrastructure. Finding them at fault depends on one's view about the legality of this particular war as a whole, and then the legality of attacking non-military targets in any war.

Third of all, these S300 air defence missiles (curiously, of Russian production) are obsolete and notoriously unreliable, so we could blame the international community for not providing Ukraine with better resources to defend their civilians. Finding them at fault depends on whether one believes that any government should sometimes prioritise foreign citizens over its own citizens (as money needed for this can, instead, be used to fund hospitals and similar).

Fourth of all, we could also blame the Polish government and army for their inability to defend their civilians from accidental missile hits. Finding them at fault depends on whether one knows that it is almost impossible, and at least economically unrealistic, to keep a whole territory of a country safe from airstrikes.

Last but not least, theoretically we could also blame these two farmers for not sitting in a shelter all the time while they know that there is a war raging abroad. Finding them at fault depends on one's mental health, I guess.

It is not an academic exercise, because - if we believe in our abstract right to have no missiles falling onto our heads - there has to be a guilty party or parties, at least one of these five. In order to defend this right, we might need to identify this party and pressure it, best as we can, to alter its actions.
"I'm in
real danger:
this world
ain't simple..."

kazanchess