Making moves and not losing time

@IsaVulpes said in #10:
> Everyone who plays faster TCs (3+0 and under, also 10+0 in scramble situations) on Lichess uses premoves, and it feels incredibly awkward to lose time on premoves, so you don't (on Lichess)
> If you want people to lose time on premoves, you have to play on chesscom, there you artificially lose 0.1s/move always; I think it's horrendous, but if you prefer it, the option is there
>
> There are five trillion differences between OTB and online chess, to create parity in "but you have to lose time on every move" of all things makes no sense.
> - I once won an OTB Blitz game in an entirely lost position cause my opponent forgot to press the clock and timed out despite having 30s left at the time of their move. Online, that wouldn't happen.
> Maybe instead of automatically switching the turn over, Lichess should force you to click a button that says "Press Clock" after every move? That would be way closer to OTB chess! (It would also be incredibly annoying, with zero gain, so it's not done)
>
> Accept that you lost a game because you didn't know what premoves are, and move on. No sense in dwelling on this being "unfair" for a week.

@Adi_the_ninja said in #8:
> Arguing that having knowledge of premoves is an unfair advantage is like arguing that having knowledge of en passant is an unfair advantage, it's not.

Not really, en-passant is a rule of the game, premoves are a function of the site you are playing on and can differ from site to site.

To OP, it's incumbent on your to understand how the site you are playing on works, a quick look through your own profiles and settings will show the term and should perhaps have prompted some curiosity.

Pre-moves are reasonably well known, but obviously you were not aware of them before, now you are!

@TheDoon With respect, I don't know how you can play over 3000 blitz games here without coming across pre-moves. Is this a troll?

Dear @TheDoon ,

Strictly speaking, it was unfair for a brief moment and only for you. It doesn't change the integrity of the game itself. It was unfair to you just until you learned about it, and now it is not unfair anymore.

I see your point. I believe the other site (chess com) implements pre-moves in a different way, you lose time anyway (but I'm not sure).

For some time I struggled with the theorical idea myself. Should pre-move lose time, even a small imperceptible bit? Sometimes I change my mind myself. I guess, losing just a little tiny little frog's hair of a time is desirable.

But on the other hand: we can't compare online chess with OTB chess. There must be things we can do online that are different from the real world. And I like the idea that the two worlds are different.

And pre-moves, although they have as "pros" not losing time, they have a bitter consequence in the "cons" column: you can't be sure what your opponent will do, because you are playing before he does.

This is a bit crazy. Imagine "pre-moving" in real life, what would that be? Maybe write down the move in a paper before your turn, and be obliged to play what you wrote? Maybe instead of a paper, an eletronic tablet. And the tablet is connected to the board, and the board lights up the squares! I don't know. I digress.

Best of luck next time.

Dr. Bèco

@BaronVonChickenpants said in #13:
> @TheDoon With respect, I don't know how you can play over 3000 blitz games here without coming across pre-moves. Is this a troll?
@BaronVonChickenpants said in #13:
> @TheDoon With respect, I don't know how you can play over 3000 blitz games here without coming across pre-moves. Is this a troll?
@BaronVonChickenpants said in #13:
> @TheDoon With respect, I don't know how you can play over 3000 blitz games here without coming across pre-moves. Is this a troll?

Is it also unfair by the forum that you don't understand how the quote function works, I wonder..

(Click on quote, then press Enter twice, and type your message below it)

@BaronVonChickenpants said in #13:
> @TheDoon With respect, I don't know how you can play over 3000 blitz games here without coming across pre-moves. Is this a troll?
@BaronVonChickenpants said in #13:
> @TheDoon With respect, I don't know how you can play over 3000 blitz games here without coming across pre-moves. Is this a troll?

Baron I replied already but don't see it, so lemme try again.

I'm familiar with premoves and have won more than a few games cause I didn't make the standard move reply, my opponent premoved and lost a piece, one time his Q lol, so yeah I have no problem with the concept of it.

My issue is with not losing time which, as some have said here, if I don't like it, go somewhere else. That's fair.

I think drbeco summed it up intelligently and fairly above.

I just have to avoid putting myself in that spot lol.

I appreciate the responses and will let this beaten to death horse rest in peace.

Happy New Year

Obviously, pre-moves are a part of bullet/blitz games.

However, some people are using some keyboard extensions that even lets you make use of "multiple pre-moves". I do not think that they are fair and they should not be allowed, in my opinion. An example extension can be found here: github.com/mr-yt12/lichess-gui-use-code-example-new

Maybe, your opponent also used an extension like this to spam many pre-moves.

@utxpnrt said in #19:
> Obviously, pre-moves are a part of bullet/blitz games.
>
> However, some people are using some keyboard extensions that even lets you make use of "multiple pre-moves". I do not think that they are fair and they should not be allowed, in my opinion. An example extension can be found here: github.com/mr-yt12/lichess-gui-use-code-example-new
>
> Maybe, your opponent also used an extension like this to spam many pre-moves.

Under TOS lichess.org/terms-of-service , you can read:

---

> Cheating - We prohibit the use of any external assistance used whilst a game you are involved in is ongoing,
> which has the effect of improving your knowledge, calculation ability, or otherwise gives you an unfair advantage
> over your opponent. Examples of cheating include, but are not limited to, using a chess engine, opening books,
> endgame tablebases, and receiving move recommendations from another person or software (including human
> commenters whilst streaming or social media services), and certain software or extensions at our discretion.
> In correspondence games only, you may use the Lichess opening explorer, plus any other chess books or opening > databases.

---

I wonder if keyboard extensions are considered as cheating. I couldn't find an explanation with more details. If you know a link / blog post or some place clarifying, please share.