Praise the one upstairs.
Ehud Barak, in a Dutch television interview today (Nieuwsuur, 15-oct), described what he envisions could happen, where after Israel take over Gaza entirely, they hand leadership over (he said for something like for six months) to a more neutral country in the region (he proposed UAE, Bahrein and I think also Egypt), who will then hand it back over to the Palestinians after that period, when they have restored their political center around something else than Hamas, organize elections and so on. So there seems to be a plan, but it also seems to make assumptions about the Palestinian response to a drive-by coup.
@s2numbuq35i said in #12:
> Ehud Barak, in a Dutch television interview today (Nieuwsuur, 15-oct), described what he envisions could happen, where after Israel take over Gaza entirely, they hand leadership over (he said for something like for six months) to a more neutral country in the region (he proposed UAE, Bahrein and I think also Egypt), who will then hand it back over to the Palestinians after that period, when they have restored their political center around something else than Hamas, organize elections and so on. So there seems to be a plan, but it also seems to make assumptions about the Palestinian response to a drive-by coup.
Nothing can happen until Hamas is eliminated. The Marshal plan wasn’t formulated in December of 1941.
> Ehud Barak, in a Dutch television interview today (Nieuwsuur, 15-oct), described what he envisions could happen, where after Israel take over Gaza entirely, they hand leadership over (he said for something like for six months) to a more neutral country in the region (he proposed UAE, Bahrein and I think also Egypt), who will then hand it back over to the Palestinians after that period, when they have restored their political center around something else than Hamas, organize elections and so on. So there seems to be a plan, but it also seems to make assumptions about the Palestinian response to a drive-by coup.
Nothing can happen until Hamas is eliminated. The Marshal plan wasn’t formulated in December of 1941.
@s2numbuq35i said in #12:
> Ehud Barak, in a Dutch television interview today (Nieuwsuur, 15-oct), [...] So there seems to be a plan, but it also seems to make assumptions about the Palestinian response to a drive-by coup.
There is always a plan...
And the current situation is the culmination of the previous plans...
Enough hypocrisy. We have seen how these plans play out time after time. The result? Look around you. Millions of people having lost their homes trying to escape to EU. Half of them die on the way, the rest are treated like dogs wherever they end up.
Feel free to say that you don't really care. But if you care, you cannot rely on these plans any more, particularly when they are designed by the same decision centers that created the previous ones. That's reality denial.
And we don't need to argue too much about this. Once again, in the following months you will witness a tsunami of immigrants and you will be wondering where did they come from and why they didn't stay in their countries.
> Ehud Barak, in a Dutch television interview today (Nieuwsuur, 15-oct), [...] So there seems to be a plan, but it also seems to make assumptions about the Palestinian response to a drive-by coup.
There is always a plan...
And the current situation is the culmination of the previous plans...
Enough hypocrisy. We have seen how these plans play out time after time. The result? Look around you. Millions of people having lost their homes trying to escape to EU. Half of them die on the way, the rest are treated like dogs wherever they end up.
Feel free to say that you don't really care. But if you care, you cannot rely on these plans any more, particularly when they are designed by the same decision centers that created the previous ones. That's reality denial.
And we don't need to argue too much about this. Once again, in the following months you will witness a tsunami of immigrants and you will be wondering where did they come from and why they didn't stay in their countries.
@s2numbuq35i said in #12:
> Ehud Barak, in a Dutch television interview today (Nieuwsuur, 15-oct), described what he envisions could happen, where after Israel take over Gaza entirely, they hand leadership over (he said for something like for six months) to a more neutral country in the region (he proposed UAE, Bahrein and I think also Egypt), who will then hand it back over to the Palestinians after that period, when they have restored their political center around something else than Hamas, organize elections and so on. So there seems to be a plan, but it also seems to make assumptions about the Palestinian response to a drive-by coup.
This plan is impossible. No country wants this head ache, Eygept and Jordan refused to take this palestinien territory.
It's much more likely that the leadership will automatically go to the plo that will be supported at first by Israel to eliminate the possibility of another organization taking over the strip, so 2005-2006 won't happen again.
and thats my two shekels on the subject
> Ehud Barak, in a Dutch television interview today (Nieuwsuur, 15-oct), described what he envisions could happen, where after Israel take over Gaza entirely, they hand leadership over (he said for something like for six months) to a more neutral country in the region (he proposed UAE, Bahrein and I think also Egypt), who will then hand it back over to the Palestinians after that period, when they have restored their political center around something else than Hamas, organize elections and so on. So there seems to be a plan, but it also seems to make assumptions about the Palestinian response to a drive-by coup.
This plan is impossible. No country wants this head ache, Eygept and Jordan refused to take this palestinien territory.
It's much more likely that the leadership will automatically go to the plo that will be supported at first by Israel to eliminate the possibility of another organization taking over the strip, so 2005-2006 won't happen again.
and thats my two shekels on the subject
@ed01106
> When a Muslim kills another Muslim nobody cares.
Ermmm? No... first thing is that you are simplifying the war to a religious war and also killing a Muslim is huge and you should probably read before you say random things
> When a Muslim kills a Jew it is a tragedy. Like a hurricane it is unavoidable. If you live in Florida hurricanes are a risk you take. If you live in Israel you have to accept that terrorism is just a part of life. There is nothing that can prevent that.
Fight for freedom isn't terrorism..however even if it was your point somewhat makes no sense because I wouldn't call nuking an entire town accepting
> When a Jew kills a Muslim it is a war crime. Every human rights organization takes notice and protests. If Israel drops a bomb on a car driven a by a mass murderer and his 16 year old son (who is training to be a terrorist) is in the car, Israel is targeting children.
? Why are you bringing 16 year olds into this (unless you call playing with small rocks found on streets terrorism and assult )..you mentioned an example without giving proof
Like just show me
> When a Muslim kills another Muslim nobody cares.
Ermmm? No... first thing is that you are simplifying the war to a religious war and also killing a Muslim is huge and you should probably read before you say random things
> When a Muslim kills a Jew it is a tragedy. Like a hurricane it is unavoidable. If you live in Florida hurricanes are a risk you take. If you live in Israel you have to accept that terrorism is just a part of life. There is nothing that can prevent that.
Fight for freedom isn't terrorism..however even if it was your point somewhat makes no sense because I wouldn't call nuking an entire town accepting
> When a Jew kills a Muslim it is a war crime. Every human rights organization takes notice and protests. If Israel drops a bomb on a car driven a by a mass murderer and his 16 year old son (who is training to be a terrorist) is in the car, Israel is targeting children.
? Why are you bringing 16 year olds into this (unless you call playing with small rocks found on streets terrorism and assult )..you mentioned an example without giving proof
Like just show me
The most common thing I hear from people from these regions is that the feuds will never end.
But I think... we have so much wealth today. Screw that.
Enough people have died in the lands called Israel/Palestine & it's not worth it. Make it a single state - whether they like it or not. "Two state" solution does not work because land has already been stolen and we can never agree on that. There'll always be an apartheid feel. A one state solution that favors the Israelis or the Palestinians is negative. We can't deny the right of Israelis born in Israel or send them somewhere. It's too bad. Maybe that makes Palestinians angry, but Israelis, get ready to be angry: you don't have a right to the land.
A single state with life, liberty, property rights equal for all Jews & Palestinians; a single vote per person. No elected government can impose religion on anyone, and nobody can deprive any other citizen of their rights.
Hold court trials for Palestinian terrorists & IDF officers. Hold trials to arbitrate land disputes that go back decades. Integrate all public spaces.
Instead of billions spent by the US on arming the IDF, etc., make it all towards rebuilding broken areas & advancing the poor & the destitute.
Of course, crippled old Biden and the Americans will never do that. A nation that fought people who speak the same language as them because they don't want to be a colony will fight to maintain colonial policies abroad. So, the situation is broken, and beyond salvation.
I cheer for the victims, then, and hope for justice in the world to come.
But I think... we have so much wealth today. Screw that.
Enough people have died in the lands called Israel/Palestine & it's not worth it. Make it a single state - whether they like it or not. "Two state" solution does not work because land has already been stolen and we can never agree on that. There'll always be an apartheid feel. A one state solution that favors the Israelis or the Palestinians is negative. We can't deny the right of Israelis born in Israel or send them somewhere. It's too bad. Maybe that makes Palestinians angry, but Israelis, get ready to be angry: you don't have a right to the land.
A single state with life, liberty, property rights equal for all Jews & Palestinians; a single vote per person. No elected government can impose religion on anyone, and nobody can deprive any other citizen of their rights.
Hold court trials for Palestinian terrorists & IDF officers. Hold trials to arbitrate land disputes that go back decades. Integrate all public spaces.
Instead of billions spent by the US on arming the IDF, etc., make it all towards rebuilding broken areas & advancing the poor & the destitute.
Of course, crippled old Biden and the Americans will never do that. A nation that fought people who speak the same language as them because they don't want to be a colony will fight to maintain colonial policies abroad. So, the situation is broken, and beyond salvation.
I cheer for the victims, then, and hope for justice in the world to come.
@sdkman said in #16:
> @ed01106
>
> Ermmm? No... first thing is that you are simplifying the war to a religious war and also killing a Muslim is huge and you should probably read before you say random things
>
> Fight for freedom isn't terrorism..however even if it was your point somewhat makes no sense because I wouldn't call nuking an entire town accepting
>
> ? Why are you bringing 16 year olds into this (unless you call playing with small rocks found on streets terrorism and assult )..you mentioned an example without giving proof
> Like just show me
Watch the videos of the attack in Israel and see how old the boys who infiltrate Israel are...
> @ed01106
>
> Ermmm? No... first thing is that you are simplifying the war to a religious war and also killing a Muslim is huge and you should probably read before you say random things
>
> Fight for freedom isn't terrorism..however even if it was your point somewhat makes no sense because I wouldn't call nuking an entire town accepting
>
> ? Why are you bringing 16 year olds into this (unless you call playing with small rocks found on streets terrorism and assult )..you mentioned an example without giving proof
> Like just show me
Watch the videos of the attack in Israel and see how old the boys who infiltrate Israel are...
@Hydrology said in #17:
> The most common thing I hear from people from these regions is that the feuds will never end.
>
> But I think... we have so much wealth today. Screw that.
>
> Enough people have died in the lands called Israel/Palestine & it's not worth it. Make it a single state - whether they like it or not. "Two state" solution does not work because land has already been stolen and we can never agree on that. There'll always be an apartheid feel. A one state solution that favors the Israelis or the Palestinians is negative. We can't deny the right of Israelis born in Israel or send them somewhere. It's too bad. Maybe that makes Palestinians angry, but Israelis, get ready to be angry: you don't have a right to the land.
>
> A single state with life, liberty, property rights equal for all Jews & Palestinians; a single vote per person. No elected government can impose religion on anyone, and nobody can deprive any other citizen of their rights.
>
> Hold court trials for Palestinian terrorists & IDF officers. Hold trials to arbitrate land disputes that go back decades. Integrate all public spaces.
>
> Instead of billions spent by the US on arming the IDF, etc., make it all towards rebuilding broken areas & advancing the poor & the destitute.
>
> Of course, crippled old Biden and the Americans will never do that. A nation that fought people who speak the same language as them because they don't want to be a colony will fight to maintain colonial policies abroad. So, the situation is broken, and beyond salvation.
>
> I cheer for the victims, then, and hope for justice in the world to come.
I must address the point you said that the US will invest the money in the rehabilitation of the weak, so for your information Gaza receives billions of dollars from Qatar and Iran and more and Hamas steals everything for weapons and luxury houses for elected officials and the ordinary Gazan citizen will remain poor, which also contributes to the conflict
> The most common thing I hear from people from these regions is that the feuds will never end.
>
> But I think... we have so much wealth today. Screw that.
>
> Enough people have died in the lands called Israel/Palestine & it's not worth it. Make it a single state - whether they like it or not. "Two state" solution does not work because land has already been stolen and we can never agree on that. There'll always be an apartheid feel. A one state solution that favors the Israelis or the Palestinians is negative. We can't deny the right of Israelis born in Israel or send them somewhere. It's too bad. Maybe that makes Palestinians angry, but Israelis, get ready to be angry: you don't have a right to the land.
>
> A single state with life, liberty, property rights equal for all Jews & Palestinians; a single vote per person. No elected government can impose religion on anyone, and nobody can deprive any other citizen of their rights.
>
> Hold court trials for Palestinian terrorists & IDF officers. Hold trials to arbitrate land disputes that go back decades. Integrate all public spaces.
>
> Instead of billions spent by the US on arming the IDF, etc., make it all towards rebuilding broken areas & advancing the poor & the destitute.
>
> Of course, crippled old Biden and the Americans will never do that. A nation that fought people who speak the same language as them because they don't want to be a colony will fight to maintain colonial policies abroad. So, the situation is broken, and beyond salvation.
>
> I cheer for the victims, then, and hope for justice in the world to come.
I must address the point you said that the US will invest the money in the rehabilitation of the weak, so for your information Gaza receives billions of dollars from Qatar and Iran and more and Hamas steals everything for weapons and luxury houses for elected officials and the ordinary Gazan citizen will remain poor, which also contributes to the conflict
@a4477 said in #19:
> I must address the point you said that the US will invest the money in the rehabilitation of the weak, so for your information Gaza receives billions of dollars from Qatar and Iran and more and Hamas steals everything for weapons and luxury houses for elected officials and the ordinary Gazan citizen will remain poor, which also contributes to the conflict
I did hear that - always was aware of the Iranian and other Arab support for Palestine and how it has been absolutely squandered, which is very depressing but also characteristic of Arab government...
... And I say that as someone who can also say that Korea did exactly this.
Yes, we became a very developed, powerful economy, and I heard it argued that we are an exception because we were allowed nationalistic economic policeis and prioritized for development because of our strategic location, so be it... But it also happened with a lot of corruption.
The people who got all the US aid money & giant, unquestionable loans were the friends & family of government officials. OFTEN, these people can even be connected to the collaborators with the Japanese... which is not just angering, but literally makes the hackles on the back of the neck rise and faces turn black with anger. To think of your grandparents born under the Japanese, struggle to survive the Korean War, and spend their life working 16+ hour days and living in shacks while the class of traitors passes on generational wealth is pretty upsetting.
And maybe this is why I get very emotional about poverty to this day... and I think Koreans who are mad at poor immigrants are very shortsighted.
There isn't enough justice.
> I must address the point you said that the US will invest the money in the rehabilitation of the weak, so for your information Gaza receives billions of dollars from Qatar and Iran and more and Hamas steals everything for weapons and luxury houses for elected officials and the ordinary Gazan citizen will remain poor, which also contributes to the conflict
I did hear that - always was aware of the Iranian and other Arab support for Palestine and how it has been absolutely squandered, which is very depressing but also characteristic of Arab government...
... And I say that as someone who can also say that Korea did exactly this.
Yes, we became a very developed, powerful economy, and I heard it argued that we are an exception because we were allowed nationalistic economic policeis and prioritized for development because of our strategic location, so be it... But it also happened with a lot of corruption.
The people who got all the US aid money & giant, unquestionable loans were the friends & family of government officials. OFTEN, these people can even be connected to the collaborators with the Japanese... which is not just angering, but literally makes the hackles on the back of the neck rise and faces turn black with anger. To think of your grandparents born under the Japanese, struggle to survive the Korean War, and spend their life working 16+ hour days and living in shacks while the class of traitors passes on generational wealth is pretty upsetting.
And maybe this is why I get very emotional about poverty to this day... and I think Koreans who are mad at poor immigrants are very shortsighted.
There isn't enough justice.
This topic has been archived and can no longer be replied to.