Which reasons that concern every man are there to help the Ukraïne?

@what_game_is_this said in #3:
> Because Russia won't stop with Ukraine if they win there. They will continue with the Baltic countries after that. Why will they do it? Because Putin is insane.
No he is not insane, he has good reasons to invade Ukraine and as a matter of fact he was the best agent the KGB had.

>
> Remember 'peace in our time'? Will our politicians be as infamous?
>
> Also, how will China look at their prospects with Taiwan if Russia is allowed to win?

This is mere speculation, China has no interest to do that since Taiwan is an island, barely impossible to invade, and two if it invaded Taiwan it loses trade relationships with USA and Europe. Notice how China has not ‘officially’ supplied Russia and how it doesn’t vote in U.N. resolutions.

> Essentially, accept what we have to deal with now or face much worse in the future.

No, supporting Ukraine actually brings us directly to a nuclear war. Think about it:
1. If Putin loses, then he gets angry and feels even more threatened by NATO. He sends a nuke on the USA. The USA replicate and they both destroy the entire world.
2. If Putin wins, NATO feels threatened by Russia and sends a nuke on Russia. Then Russia replicates and they both destroy the entire world.

Thx, so far. interesting.

@everyone - plz, stick to "reasons to help the Ukraïne, that concern us all"
( not what p' ' 'n wants, what will \ might happen, and endless speculations alike - make an own titlepost for such ), thanks!

º º º º ººº º ºº º º º º ººº º º º ºº º º º º º

How about human rights, humanitarian intervention, international law (of nations), achievements of mankind in matters of social life, of the globalized whole world's society, in matters of fighting war & violence, poverty, injustice, exploitation of workers, hunger.
How about what we want to understand mankind on its continuous way away from acting by archaic instincts like cavemen, like animals, but able to take the decision to live like humans that really deserve to be called "human, humanity".

Is there a law that we have to help the Ukraïne as victim of this illegal attack on a sovereign state?

( i mean do we not have huge problems anyway without this shºt )

#12
No such law exists. There is a possibility to voluntarily send troops.

If anyone is interested, search for:
intervention international law

It's quite a long poem, but I think it's always worth seeing why we shouldn't be bystanders...

Here's an animated version:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRDq7aneXnk

The Hangman
By Maurice Ogden
1.
Into our town the Hangman came
Smelling of gold and blood and flame—
And he paced our bricks with a diffident air
And built his frame on the courthouse square.

The scaffold stood by the courthouse side,
Only as wide as the door was wide;
A frame as tall, or little more,
Than the capping sill of the courthouse door.

And we wondered, whenever we had the time,
Who the criminal, what the crime,
The Hangman judged with the yellow twist
Of knotted hemp in his busy fist.

And innocent though we were, with dread
We passed those eyes of buckshot lead;
Till one cried: “Hangman, who is he
For whom you raise the gallows-tree?”

Then a twinkle grew in the buckshot eye,
And he gave us a riddle instead of reply:
“He who serves me best,” said he,
“Shall earn the rope on the gallows-tree.”

And he stepped down, and laid his hand
On a man who came from another land.
And we breathed again, for another’s grief
At the Hangman’s hand was our relief.

And the gallows-frame on the courthouse lawn
By tomorrow’s sun would be struck and gone.
So we gave him way, and no one spoke,
Out of respect for his hangman’s cloak.

2.
The next day’s sun looked mildly down
On roof and street in our quiet town
And, stark and black in the morning air,
The gallows-tree on the courthouse square.

And the Hangman stood at his usual stand
With the yellow hemp in his busy hand;
With his buckshot eye and his jaw like a pike
And his air so knowing and businesslike.

And we cried: “Hangman, have you not done,
Yesterday, with the alien one?”
Then we fell silent, and stood amazed:
“Oh, not for him was the gallows raised . . .”

He laughed a laugh as he looked at us:
“ . . . Did you think I’d gone to all this fuss
To hang one man? That’s a thing I do
To stretch the rope when the rope is new.”

Then one cried “Murderer!” One cried “Shame!”
And into our midst the Hangman came
To that man’s place. “Do you hold,” said he,
With him that’s meant for the gallows-tree?”

And he laid his hand on that one’s arm,
And we shrank back in quick alarm,
And we gave him way, and no one spoke
Out of fear of his hangman’s cloak.

That night we saw with dread surprise
The Hangman’s scaffold had grown in size.
Fed by the blood beneath the chute
The gallows-tree had taken root.

Now as wide, or a little more,
Than the steps that led to the courthouse door,
As tall as the writing, or nearly as tall,
Halfway up on the courthouse wall.

3.
The third he took—and we had all heard tell—
Was a usurer and infidel. And:
“What,” said the Hangman, “have you to do
With the gallows-bound, and he a Jew?”

And we cried out: “Is this one he
Who has served you well and faithfully?”
The Hangman smiled: “It’s a clever scheme
To try the strength of the gallows-beam.”

The fourth man’s dark, accusing song
Had scratched out comfort hard and long;
And “What concern,” he gave us back,
“Have you for the doomed—the doomed and black?”

The fifth. The sixth. And we cried again:
“Hangman, Hangman, is this the man?”
“It’s a trick,” he said, “that we hangmen know
For easing the trap when the trap springs slow.”

And so we ceased and asked no more,
As the Hangman tallied his bloody score;
And sun by sun, and night by night,
The gallows grew to monstrous height.

The wings of the scaffold opened wide
Till they covered the square from side to side;
And the monster cross-beam, looking down,
Cast its shadow across the town.

4.
Then through the town the Hangman came
And called in the empty streets my name,
And I looked at the gallows soaring tall
And thought: “There is no one left at all

For hanging, and so he calls to me
To help him pull down the gallows-tree.”
And I went out with right good hope
To the Hangman’s tree and the Hangman’s rope.

He smiled at me as I came down
To the courthouse square through the silent town,
And supple and stretched in his busy hand
Was the yellow twist of the hempen strand.

And he whistled his tune as he tried the trap
And it sprang down with a ready snap—
And then with a smile of awful command
He laid his hand upon my hand.

“You tricked me, Hangman!” I shouted then,
“That your scaffold was built for other men . . .
And I no henchman of yours,” I cried.
“You lied to me, Hangman, foully lied!”

Then a twinkle grew in the buckshot eye:
“Lied to you? Tricked you?” he said, “Not I.
For I answered straight and I told you true:
The scaffold was raised for none but you.”

“For who has served me more faithfully
Than you with your coward’s hope?” said he,
“And where are the others that might have stood
Side by your side in the common good?”

“Dead,” I whispered: and amiably,
“Murdered,” the Hangman corrected me;
“First the alien, then the Jew . . .
I did no more than you let me do.”

Beneath the beam that blocked the sky,
None had stood so alone as I—
And the Hangman strapped me, and no voice there
Cried “Stay!” for me in the empty square

Cf. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

Ukraine was NOT in NATO.

You don't need to destroy city after city to keep Ukraine out of NATO.

Ukraine wasn't even IN NATO.

Even after all this, Ukraine is STILL not in NATO. The invasion just made people WANT to put them in NATO. But we shouldn't.

Please don't accept nonsense reasons for invading and destroying a neighbor.

Really. Please don't.

Hitler gave B.S. "reasons" for invading the Chechs and Poland, too. Don't believe such nonsense.

True, much of the world's nonsense right now is fashionable. You see much of the nonsense celebrated on college campuses.

The world is awash in nonsense. Stop believing nonsense. That's the key to having a future.

Much of the nonsense is fashionable now. But crowds don't turn nonsense into sense . Even if some pandering politicians bend to the nonsense to get or keep power.

I'm not singling out any nonsense in particular Today, there's plenty of nonsense to go around.

> people WANT to put them in NATO. But we shouldn't

Why not? Because Putin doesn't allow it? Or because you're afraid he'll start nuclear war? Whatever your answer, Putin should have no say in who gets to join NATO, because Putin is not in NATO. His type of aggressor is the reason NATO exists in the first place.

What he can do is treat his neighboring countries so badly (literally raping, looting and pillaging them) that they want to join any mutual defense pact, which is their right and due course of action considering the vicious threat to their safety. So invigorating NATO pull was his doing, as NATO was in some ways on its ass before he emboldened it and rekindled member states' commitment to its finances.

His action have European leaders talking about doubling(!) our weapons budget. I observe Putin not as a leader, but as a pawn for the fossil and weapons industries, which together are larger than the USA economy itself. It explains his oppressive regime, his fake irredentist narratives, his energy policies, the ongoing trickle-warfare (to increase demand on both sides) and also his friendships to key figures in US and European politics, who are themselves starving Gazans to get to their gas and oil.

This is nothing to do with us..As soon as a NATO country is attacked, it will have everything to do with us.

If a NATO member is attacked, we must go to war. That's World War III.

What does anybody hope to gain by World War III? Seriously ... what does anybody hope to gain?
c
Did we learn nothing from World War I?

And blaming "industries" for the action of Russia seems to me just a way to hold on to comfortable preconceptions. Corporations aren't to blame for invading a neighbor. Lust for empire existed long before corporations.