Correct me if I am wrong. So you are saying that during a game, when opponent time is less than 1, it keeps on being back to 1. It is NOT lag. Because lag like make the computer *slower*. If the player premoves, yes, it should be like lag. But if player does not, then it is lichess problem.(so in other ways, @InkyDarkBird and @jdwhite42 are a bit correct.)
@natbee56 said in #21:
> Correct me if I am wrong. So you are saying that during a game, when opponent time is less than 1, it keeps on being back to 1. It is NOT lag. Because lag like make the computer *slower*. If the player premoves, yes, it should be like lag. But if player does not, then it is lichess problem.(so in other ways, @InkyDarkBird and @jdwhite42 are a bit correct.)
Yes you’re on the right track! The opponent had less than 1 second remaining, would move *not pre move* and the clock would stay the same. By virtue of this, they got lots of turns - enough to come back from an obvious loss and actually win (getting remaining pawns to queen-up because I was busy premoving my kings around wasting time/counting on the fraction of a second to be up)!!!! And after the win the clock was still showing the same time.
> Correct me if I am wrong. So you are saying that during a game, when opponent time is less than 1, it keeps on being back to 1. It is NOT lag. Because lag like make the computer *slower*. If the player premoves, yes, it should be like lag. But if player does not, then it is lichess problem.(so in other ways, @InkyDarkBird and @jdwhite42 are a bit correct.)
Yes you’re on the right track! The opponent had less than 1 second remaining, would move *not pre move* and the clock would stay the same. By virtue of this, they got lots of turns - enough to come back from an obvious loss and actually win (getting remaining pawns to queen-up because I was busy premoving my kings around wasting time/counting on the fraction of a second to be up)!!!! And after the win the clock was still showing the same time.
I have never got any compensation for lag, so i don't know what you are experiencing
@Margareepostmaster said in #22:
> *not pre move*
How do you know your opponent didn't premove?
(And please don't tell me the reason for your conclusion he couldn't be promoving is that his time was running down or that there was time between you making a move and his move to be played, because if that's the case I highly doubt you even read a word of the article that was pointed out to you in the first answer)
Let me save you the trouble of both answering my question and reading the article. If you didn't sit beside him while you guys played or if you didn't ask him, I can answer the quesion for you: Your opponent premoved.
You making a move triggers two things: Your opponent's time starting to run down, and the information of your move being sent to Lichess servers. It takes time for the information of your move to be sent to the Lichess servers (duh!), and maybe even more time when it's sent from there to your opponent. (For him, it also looked like you didn't move right away, and the time you had left shown on your opponent's display gets a correction.) Then, the information of your opponent's premove is sent to Lichess servers and then to your computer. In ALL of this time, on your display, the time of your opponent was running down. This lost time gets a correction from Lichess, because Lichess knows with certainty it was a premove. So the information of his move arriving at your computer triggers two things: His time jumping back to where it was when you made your last move, and your face contorting in disgust because you feel unfairly treated.
> *not pre move*
How do you know your opponent didn't premove?
(And please don't tell me the reason for your conclusion he couldn't be promoving is that his time was running down or that there was time between you making a move and his move to be played, because if that's the case I highly doubt you even read a word of the article that was pointed out to you in the first answer)
Let me save you the trouble of both answering my question and reading the article. If you didn't sit beside him while you guys played or if you didn't ask him, I can answer the quesion for you: Your opponent premoved.
You making a move triggers two things: Your opponent's time starting to run down, and the information of your move being sent to Lichess servers. It takes time for the information of your move to be sent to the Lichess servers (duh!), and maybe even more time when it's sent from there to your opponent. (For him, it also looked like you didn't move right away, and the time you had left shown on your opponent's display gets a correction.) Then, the information of your opponent's premove is sent to Lichess servers and then to your computer. In ALL of this time, on your display, the time of your opponent was running down. This lost time gets a correction from Lichess, because Lichess knows with certainty it was a premove. So the information of his move arriving at your computer triggers two things: His time jumping back to where it was when you made your last move, and your face contorting in disgust because you feel unfairly treated.
@HoldTheGround
Hello thanks for your collaboration, it looks like you know a lot about this subject, care to explain what happened to the clock of black between moves 30 and 31? It is a bullet 1/0 and from having 29 seconds in move 30 I have 1 minute and 26 seconds in move 31, the below game I have just played and I am sure that with all your knowledge this is easy for you to find what happened, in advance I think your conclusion is there is nothing wrong on lichess side and it is somebody's else fault, I don't know I have that feeling.
lichess.org/quxrjoIx/black#62/
Hello thanks for your collaboration, it looks like you know a lot about this subject, care to explain what happened to the clock of black between moves 30 and 31? It is a bullet 1/0 and from having 29 seconds in move 30 I have 1 minute and 26 seconds in move 31, the below game I have just played and I am sure that with all your knowledge this is easy for you to find what happened, in advance I think your conclusion is there is nothing wrong on lichess side and it is somebody's else fault, I don't know I have that feeling.
lichess.org/quxrjoIx/black#62/
You thank me for my collaboration and ask me for something, yet give me a thumb down? You're kinda odd!
Anyways, here is your answer: Your opponent pressed the '+' button four times
@Artem-Kozirev said in #25:
> I think your conclusion is there is nothing wrong on lichess side and it is somebody's else fault
You're clever!
Anyways, here is your answer: Your opponent pressed the '+' button four times
@Artem-Kozirev said in #25:
> I think your conclusion is there is nothing wrong on lichess side and it is somebody's else fault
You're clever!
@HoldTheGround Anyway, thanks for your collaboration once again, but pressing 4 times the plus signs does not explain what happened with the clock and why from 29,5 secs in move 30 I have 1 minute and 26 seconds in move 31. You could fairly say that with the addition of a minute I should have 1 minute and 29,5 seconds but not 1 minute and 26 seconds... I do not see the arithmetic behind it. Now I will with your permission use yur own words: " You're clever! "
PS. My benchmarking to comments works better than Amazon return policy, I here give you back a thumb up multiplied by 1 million in case it was me who previously gave you a thumb down, and if it was not me, you can have them anyway, enjoy.
PS. My benchmarking to comments works better than Amazon return policy, I here give you back a thumb up multiplied by 1 million in case it was me who previously gave you a thumb down, and if it was not me, you can have them anyway, enjoy.
no worries my dude, you are free to give thumbs up or down as you wish, I just found it odd.
@Artem-Kozirev said in #27:
> pressing 4 times the plus signs does not explain what happened with the clock and why from 29,5 secs in move 30 I have 1 minute and 26 seconds in move 31
Well I didn't think I needed to explain that you lose time on your turn, yet here we are.
You took some seconds to move, that's why it's not exactly 60 seconds.
@Artem-Kozirev said in #27:
> pressing 4 times the plus signs does not explain what happened with the clock and why from 29,5 secs in move 30 I have 1 minute and 26 seconds in move 31
Well I didn't think I needed to explain that you lose time on your turn, yet here we are.
You took some seconds to move, that's why it's not exactly 60 seconds.
I don't understand why you guys believe beyond any reasonable doubt that Lichess is flawless. Nobody doubts that's a very good chess server, but, as with many other things in life, has flaws, in this case, fundamental flaws.
You don't make Lichess a favor thinking like that and defending Lichess like an army daring to refute any comment that does not praise Lichess.
The issue that @Artem-Kozirev reports exist. Lichess is far from perfection and lots of games are daily unfairly lost because of the lag compensation. Even devs are willing to take into consideration that possibility.
So please, respect free speech and don't underestimate others' opinions, very especially if all those opinions are different from yours.
You don't make Lichess a favor thinking like that and defending Lichess like an army daring to refute any comment that does not praise Lichess.
The issue that @Artem-Kozirev reports exist. Lichess is far from perfection and lots of games are daily unfairly lost because of the lag compensation. Even devs are willing to take into consideration that possibility.
So please, respect free speech and don't underestimate others' opinions, very especially if all those opinions are different from yours.
@HoldTheGround Hello again, in
#24 you make an assumption "I can answer the quesion for you: Your opponent premoved."
#24 another assumption "So the information of his move arriving at your computer triggers two things: His time jumping back to where it was when you made your last move, and your face contorting in disgust because you feel unfairly treated." you assume lichess system was working well all the time ... not to mention your assumption about someone's face and feeling.
#26 is another assumption about my question in #25 which leads to a wrong answer about 4 times pressing the + sign.
#28 Again another assumption "Well I didn't think I needed to explain that you lose time on your turn, yet here we are.You took
some seconds to move, that's why it's not exactly 60 seconds."
Your answers are purely based on assumption which result in biased conclusions and blind your judgment.
You never ever give room to the slightlest possibility of any failure on lichess' side.
In fact if we all make assumptions ( as you do without any hard evidence) it would turn out that all kind of scenarios are possible and we would enter the field of speculation as you have entered ( directly Twilight Zone )
Now to see it from a perspective let's say you have a measuring device installed in your house which at the end of the month when it is read it tells the liters of water you have consumed and you have to pay, and even you and many people in your house have seen the counter going up when the main supply was off the company keeps denying the fact and you have to pay without any complain. The thing is in real life these measuring devices come with a physical lock, a sealing, they are certified to be error free and the whole installation is audited by 3rd party companies (like TUV in Germany if you are familiar) to make sure there is no tampering or manipulation and to guarantee correctness, avoid misunderstandings, speculations and all sort of odd scenarios and above all ensure the necessary TRANSPARENCY.
This is an old claim I have made to lichess as well. Where are the certifications, audits, validations,etc. to guarantee that the system and algorithms works flawlessly??? as @FryderykFranciszek also states. In an online chess game like bullet or blitz, the accurracy of time measuring is critical. If lichess ( or any other site I have already said it countless times this is not a problem exclusively of lichess) cannot guarantee a correct time measuring (and this is the case today) in an online game then there is really a big issue because we are talking about the core, kernel and nature of the online game and of the site (and any gaming site). New definitions are necessary to encircle the limits and avoid discussions and audits.
The audits and certifications I have requested to lichess are not only regarding time measuring but just about the whole site. In particular the TOS has to be rewritten and adapted to the new resolutions of United Nations that guarantee same Human Rights we have in the real world to those in the cyberspace in particular the right to a cyberlife (life) and freedom of speech. Currently the existing TOS says lichess can close your account without having to give any kind of explanations or without having to substantiate or prove anything ... something like your conclusions @HoldTheGround ... (otherwise show me the 3rd party companies audits that back up your staments and certify that lichess algorithms run error free -within certain limits of course-).
What is worrying is that from lichess there is no official answer, also not unofficial, on these issues (if something is being done, whatever) which are discussed in a lost thread somewhere in a forum ... well, here.
#24 you make an assumption "I can answer the quesion for you: Your opponent premoved."
#24 another assumption "So the information of his move arriving at your computer triggers two things: His time jumping back to where it was when you made your last move, and your face contorting in disgust because you feel unfairly treated." you assume lichess system was working well all the time ... not to mention your assumption about someone's face and feeling.
#26 is another assumption about my question in #25 which leads to a wrong answer about 4 times pressing the + sign.
#28 Again another assumption "Well I didn't think I needed to explain that you lose time on your turn, yet here we are.You took
some seconds to move, that's why it's not exactly 60 seconds."
Your answers are purely based on assumption which result in biased conclusions and blind your judgment.
You never ever give room to the slightlest possibility of any failure on lichess' side.
In fact if we all make assumptions ( as you do without any hard evidence) it would turn out that all kind of scenarios are possible and we would enter the field of speculation as you have entered ( directly Twilight Zone )
Now to see it from a perspective let's say you have a measuring device installed in your house which at the end of the month when it is read it tells the liters of water you have consumed and you have to pay, and even you and many people in your house have seen the counter going up when the main supply was off the company keeps denying the fact and you have to pay without any complain. The thing is in real life these measuring devices come with a physical lock, a sealing, they are certified to be error free and the whole installation is audited by 3rd party companies (like TUV in Germany if you are familiar) to make sure there is no tampering or manipulation and to guarantee correctness, avoid misunderstandings, speculations and all sort of odd scenarios and above all ensure the necessary TRANSPARENCY.
This is an old claim I have made to lichess as well. Where are the certifications, audits, validations,etc. to guarantee that the system and algorithms works flawlessly??? as @FryderykFranciszek also states. In an online chess game like bullet or blitz, the accurracy of time measuring is critical. If lichess ( or any other site I have already said it countless times this is not a problem exclusively of lichess) cannot guarantee a correct time measuring (and this is the case today) in an online game then there is really a big issue because we are talking about the core, kernel and nature of the online game and of the site (and any gaming site). New definitions are necessary to encircle the limits and avoid discussions and audits.
The audits and certifications I have requested to lichess are not only regarding time measuring but just about the whole site. In particular the TOS has to be rewritten and adapted to the new resolutions of United Nations that guarantee same Human Rights we have in the real world to those in the cyberspace in particular the right to a cyberlife (life) and freedom of speech. Currently the existing TOS says lichess can close your account without having to give any kind of explanations or without having to substantiate or prove anything ... something like your conclusions @HoldTheGround ... (otherwise show me the 3rd party companies audits that back up your staments and certify that lichess algorithms run error free -within certain limits of course-).
What is worrying is that from lichess there is no official answer, also not unofficial, on these issues (if something is being done, whatever) which are discussed in a lost thread somewhere in a forum ... well, here.
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