Maybe so if that's the line he was talking about. I'd normally distinguish that line. You know, you wouldn't for instance talk about the Caro Kann Exchange Variation when you mean the Panov-Botvinnik attack. Confusing business, that!
My entire argument was based on the unsaid assumption that ed ed c4 is a dynamic and nice game. @OhNoMyPants and @alekhinesgun1937 Thanks for clarifying all this. Nf3 Bd3 system is of course drawish.
@savagechess2k and @alekhinesgun1937
Since I am playing both French AND Queens gambit accepted I can give you the following statement:
4.c4 is indeed a try for advantage and I would not say the guy who is playing 4.c4 is playing for a draw. Still, 4.c4 is draw. Because white is actually worse thereafter
Possibility 1:
from french. That is 4.c4 Nc6! 5.Nf3 Bg4 6.cxd5 Qxd5 7.Nc3 Bb4 8.Be2 Bxf3! 9.Bxf3 Qc4! and best white can achieve here is by playing Qe2+ or Bxc6+ and I although there are still pieces on the board, there are no chances for black to go wrong. Basically it is an Endgame with symmetrical pawn structure.
Possibility 2:
From QGA 1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.e3 e5 4.Bxc4 exd4 5.exd4....
Which is the same as if in french black would play 4.c4 dxc4 5.Bxc4. You would think dxc4 is the very best white can ever get in this structures right? And still
5.Bxc4 Bd6 6.Nf3 (6.Qe2+!? is the best way practically to achieve something, but just in short, black does hold, albeit it does require theory and I bet you were talking about the general idea and not this special single variation, since if not for this the whole position is DEAD drawn as you see. From french move order you can also play Nf6,Bd6 first, and only then dxc4 to avoid it entirerly). There are 3 Variations now and I try to cover them briefly
5.Bxc4 Bd6 6.Nf3 Nf6 7.0-0 0-0 and now
a)8.Nc3 Nc6 9.h3 h6 10.Qc2! (Re1 Bf5 and black has 0 problems) Nb4 11.Qb1 Be6! (not c6 bcs of Bxh6!) 12.Bxe6 fxe6 and it is equal without many options for both sides
b)8.Bg5 Nc6 9.h3 h6 10.Bh4 g5 11.Bg3 Bxg3 12.fxg3 g4! 13.hxg4 Bxg4 and even if it looks strange trust me it is equal. With right play endgame again
c)8.Bg5 Nc6 9.Nc3 Bg4 10.h3 Bxf3 11.Qxf3 Nxd4 12.Qxb7 Rb8 13.Qxa7 Ra8 14.Qb7 Rb8 with repetition.
That is the reason why with 15 years of playing chess for 2h/day i can 'simply' put 3.exd5 as a draw
Since I am playing both French AND Queens gambit accepted I can give you the following statement:
4.c4 is indeed a try for advantage and I would not say the guy who is playing 4.c4 is playing for a draw. Still, 4.c4 is draw. Because white is actually worse thereafter
Possibility 1:
from french. That is 4.c4 Nc6! 5.Nf3 Bg4 6.cxd5 Qxd5 7.Nc3 Bb4 8.Be2 Bxf3! 9.Bxf3 Qc4! and best white can achieve here is by playing Qe2+ or Bxc6+ and I although there are still pieces on the board, there are no chances for black to go wrong. Basically it is an Endgame with symmetrical pawn structure.
Possibility 2:
From QGA 1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.e3 e5 4.Bxc4 exd4 5.exd4....
Which is the same as if in french black would play 4.c4 dxc4 5.Bxc4. You would think dxc4 is the very best white can ever get in this structures right? And still
5.Bxc4 Bd6 6.Nf3 (6.Qe2+!? is the best way practically to achieve something, but just in short, black does hold, albeit it does require theory and I bet you were talking about the general idea and not this special single variation, since if not for this the whole position is DEAD drawn as you see. From french move order you can also play Nf6,Bd6 first, and only then dxc4 to avoid it entirerly). There are 3 Variations now and I try to cover them briefly
5.Bxc4 Bd6 6.Nf3 Nf6 7.0-0 0-0 and now
a)8.Nc3 Nc6 9.h3 h6 10.Qc2! (Re1 Bf5 and black has 0 problems) Nb4 11.Qb1 Be6! (not c6 bcs of Bxh6!) 12.Bxe6 fxe6 and it is equal without many options for both sides
b)8.Bg5 Nc6 9.h3 h6 10.Bh4 g5 11.Bg3 Bxg3 12.fxg3 g4! 13.hxg4 Bxg4 and even if it looks strange trust me it is equal. With right play endgame again
c)8.Bg5 Nc6 9.Nc3 Bg4 10.h3 Bxf3 11.Qxf3 Nxd4 12.Qxb7 Rb8 13.Qxa7 Ra8 14.Qb7 Rb8 with repetition.
That is the reason why with 15 years of playing chess for 2h/day i can 'simply' put 3.exd5 as a draw
Interesting stuff. Thank you. Tho I won't say White is worse there, but he has no advantage.
1. e4 e6 2. Qe2!! +-
Lol even Qe2 is a better try for a win. It is equal, but at least it mixes it up, unlike in Exchange.
Kind of funny that this baca,e a discussion about the French defemce
Became* anyways thanks for your opinions and giving some reasons why you have them when it comes torpeventing draws
@alekhinesgun1937
It seems that Qe2 do not prevent anything. Not sure that a weird move is a good move, during a classic game.
2. ... d5 can be played with no fear and if you like a funny game !
I lost against this opening, only because i played against a stronger player, not because of Qe2 (I played 2. ... c5)
It seems that Qe2 do not prevent anything. Not sure that a weird move is a good move, during a classic game.
2. ... d5 can be played with no fear and if you like a funny game !
I lost against this opening, only because i played against a stronger player, not because of Qe2 (I played 2. ... c5)
2.Qe2 / 2.d3 d5 3.Qe2 often leads to a improved KIA, knight hasn’t committed itself to d2 (Nbd2).
I have played this successfully for many years .
Example: lichess.org/forum/game-analysis/100-acpl-11-including-a-mate-in-16-played-at-the-vienna-open-2016#1
(including a side note to Qe2)
I have played this successfully for many years .
Example: lichess.org/forum/game-analysis/100-acpl-11-including-a-mate-in-16-played-at-the-vienna-open-2016#1
(including a side note to Qe2)
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