@chessanalyst
Thanks for taking the time to write that up. I appreciate it. Just as an aside: 11.2 is the first engine to ever eclipse 3400 on the CCRL 40/40 list. That said, if SF 8 raw is 3389 on the same list, then clearly several SF Dev versions are well over 3400, too.
@scuffi
Perfect. Thank you, as well.
Thanks for taking the time to write that up. I appreciate it. Just as an aside: 11.2 is the first engine to ever eclipse 3400 on the CCRL 40/40 list. That said, if SF 8 raw is 3389 on the same list, then clearly several SF Dev versions are well over 3400, too.
@scuffi
Perfect. Thank you, as well.
Komodo understand imbalanced position better than Stockfish.
For example like this ->
Materialistically black is ahead, but Komodo know that 2Qs on crowded board tend to be redundant. Black's queens shrink in value together due to elephantiasis effect.
For example like this ->
Materialistically black is ahead, but Komodo know that 2Qs on crowded board tend to be redundant. Black's queens shrink in value together due to elephantiasis effect.
I'm still on the fence about buying it this month only because I'm already stretched thin until September. If I don't wind up grabbing it in the next few days, I'll definitely pick it up in a few weeks.
What is more important/useful to me right now is digging into getting the most out of Fritz 15 + SF Dev. I've discovered that for someone at my skill level and experience, the GUI is more important than the differences between Komodo and SF. As I was discussing with chessanalyst - I'm really interested in the Big or Mega database but there will be a 2018 version in 2-3 months so it wouldn't make sense for me to buy the current versions now.
I will say that with Deep Shredder 13 costing $100 with no other payment option, Komodo's price doesn't look too bad anymore.
What is more important/useful to me right now is digging into getting the most out of Fritz 15 + SF Dev. I've discovered that for someone at my skill level and experience, the GUI is more important than the differences between Komodo and SF. As I was discussing with chessanalyst - I'm really interested in the Big or Mega database but there will be a 2018 version in 2-3 months so it wouldn't make sense for me to buy the current versions now.
I will say that with Deep Shredder 13 costing $100 with no other payment option, Komodo's price doesn't look too bad anymore.
http://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/4040/rating_list_pure.html
Komodo and Stockfish are just way, way out front of the rest of the pack currently.
Komodo and Stockfish are just way, way out front of the rest of the pack currently.
Just in fairness to Shredder Chess: Shredder 13 is $40 and Deep Shredder 13 is $100. Additionally, it's not just an engine that you're getting here, it's an entire suite of products and training tools. Endgame bases included.
It actually looks like an interesting package and an alternative to the Chessbase line.
It actually looks like an interesting package and an alternative to the Chessbase line.
Yeah, honestly, while I love to geek out about the playing strength of various engines, that is a bit of a moot point when it comes to using them as a tool for improvement.
Sure, K11.2 is strong. Sure, the dev versions of SF (especially asmFish) are stronger, at least at time controls fast enough to have a lot of data.
For a player of, say, my level, using these engines to analyze my games to improve, does even an extra 100-200 points matter?
Nope. At this point, when even the version of Fritz AFTER the one that beat Kramnik is about 500 points behind today's monsters, it's more a question of what you put into the analysis that is important than whether you have the absolute strongest executable available this week.
Don't get me wrong, I update my asmFish with pretty much every release because I'm a geek like that, but I don't kid myself into thinking that really matters for my improvement purposes.
GUI features (like Aquarium's IDEA, for example) are honestly more interesting for training purposes than raw strength improvements for the engines at this point, and nothing is more important than the time and effort you put into the analysis yourself.
To translate to a human perspective, I'd much rather get trained by a 2500 that was very good at explaining things than a 2800 who couldn't communicate anything beyond "This move looks good." :)
Sure, K11.2 is strong. Sure, the dev versions of SF (especially asmFish) are stronger, at least at time controls fast enough to have a lot of data.
For a player of, say, my level, using these engines to analyze my games to improve, does even an extra 100-200 points matter?
Nope. At this point, when even the version of Fritz AFTER the one that beat Kramnik is about 500 points behind today's monsters, it's more a question of what you put into the analysis that is important than whether you have the absolute strongest executable available this week.
Don't get me wrong, I update my asmFish with pretty much every release because I'm a geek like that, but I don't kid myself into thinking that really matters for my improvement purposes.
GUI features (like Aquarium's IDEA, for example) are honestly more interesting for training purposes than raw strength improvements for the engines at this point, and nothing is more important than the time and effort you put into the analysis yourself.
To translate to a human perspective, I'd much rather get trained by a 2500 that was very good at explaining things than a 2800 who couldn't communicate anything beyond "This move looks good." :)
@a_pleasant_illusion
This is exactly what I was realizing earlier and have only realized more tonight. Purchasing Komodo is a luxury and a nice one but honestly - Now that you guys linked me to asm-Fish and I'm adjusting the SF settings (you can quite a bit with Fritz) - I'm really into Stockfish. I like how it plays and I like the entire concept of an open source, free engine just running over the competition.
The 2018 Mega Database, any new version of Fritz, and the 2018 Fritz Opening Book is what I'm most interested in now. That and contributing and partaking in the SF community as much as possible.
I'll go ahead and make a small donation here this month and save the rest of the money toward the aforementioned items that should be around in October/November/December as it seems they always are.
This is exactly what I was realizing earlier and have only realized more tonight. Purchasing Komodo is a luxury and a nice one but honestly - Now that you guys linked me to asm-Fish and I'm adjusting the SF settings (you can quite a bit with Fritz) - I'm really into Stockfish. I like how it plays and I like the entire concept of an open source, free engine just running over the competition.
The 2018 Mega Database, any new version of Fritz, and the 2018 Fritz Opening Book is what I'm most interested in now. That and contributing and partaking in the SF community as much as possible.
I'll go ahead and make a small donation here this month and save the rest of the money toward the aforementioned items that should be around in October/November/December as it seems they always are.
Something I think should be mentioned here because it definitely isn't anywhere else:
There's some misleading sales going on here regarding Komodo. They're selling "Komodo 11" on Chessbase and ICC for between $59 and $79 USD. Directly from Komodo's site, you can get 11.2 for $59. For $99 you get 11.2 and 12 months of updates. If you purchase Komodo 11 from Chessbase or ICC, that's what you're getting - Komodo 11.1 for that price, and no upgrades. Meaning, after you purchase this product (today) and realize what I just wrote, you would have to go and spend another $60 from Komodo's website itself in order to upgrade to 11.2. Sometimes they give the newest update after a recent purchase for free but I see no mention of that here, and that would still be only 1 update. The next 11 months of updates would require a new purchase or a $99 sub.
NONE of this is explained anywhere. I think it's extremely shady to go about sales this way and would definitely classify this as "bait and switch" tactics. All for what? To have the 2nd best engine on the market and an update here and there? Not when the alternative is $0 and updated a few times a week. Not for me.
There's some misleading sales going on here regarding Komodo. They're selling "Komodo 11" on Chessbase and ICC for between $59 and $79 USD. Directly from Komodo's site, you can get 11.2 for $59. For $99 you get 11.2 and 12 months of updates. If you purchase Komodo 11 from Chessbase or ICC, that's what you're getting - Komodo 11.1 for that price, and no upgrades. Meaning, after you purchase this product (today) and realize what I just wrote, you would have to go and spend another $60 from Komodo's website itself in order to upgrade to 11.2. Sometimes they give the newest update after a recent purchase for free but I see no mention of that here, and that would still be only 1 update. The next 11 months of updates would require a new purchase or a $99 sub.
NONE of this is explained anywhere. I think it's extremely shady to go about sales this way and would definitely classify this as "bait and switch" tactics. All for what? To have the 2nd best engine on the market and an update here and there? Not when the alternative is $0 and updated a few times a week. Not for me.
#19 you describe two different things:
The first one is the Komodo team's business practice (offering updates for a reduced price for existing customers)
The second one is Chessbase's business practice.
The only thing to blame on the Komodo team is to cooperate with a company like Chessbase. But it's still understandable from an economic point of view.
And no, I am not affiliated with the Komodo team. I am happily using free engines.
The first one is the Komodo team's business practice (offering updates for a reduced price for existing customers)
The second one is Chessbase's business practice.
The only thing to blame on the Komodo team is to cooperate with a company like Chessbase. But it's still understandable from an economic point of view.
And no, I am not affiliated with the Komodo team. I am happily using free engines.
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