I just played Rosena. We each had a king and a knight. I offered a draw several times but Rosena kept moving his knight around. My clock ran out and he was he declared the winner. This is a draw. Why does the game award a win time limit or not? It is impossible for either player to win.
These threads get started daily. Best to read FIDE rules before starting to play. It is NOT impossible to win. The King and Knight are sufficient mating material vs K + N. (It is a draw vs a lone King).
It's not a draw. K+N vs K+N can be mate, but K+N vs K is not a mate.
They say that one knight cannot mate against a LONE king, even with the help of his own king. However, K+N vs K+(any piece) can still be a win for the team with the N.
They say that one knight cannot mate against a LONE king, even with the help of his own king. However, K+N vs K+(any piece) can still be a win for the team with the N.
maybe you can claim insufficient losing chances
@fasttony To clarify, most sites use something like the USCF rules, which just say that certain material configurations are insufficient to win, period. K+N is one of those, and they just call that insufficient no matter what else is on the board.
Lichess approximates the FIDE rules, which are different. The FIDE rules state that running out of time is a loss so long as there exists a sequence of legal moves that result in the flagged side getting mated.
It doesn't have to be forced, and it doesn't matter how stupid the moves would be. So long as a sequence of legal moves exists that results in your getting mated, you lose when you run out of time.
This has the effect that sometimes having extra material means you could trap your own king, allowing a legal sequence of moves leading to mate, where such a sequence would NOT exist if you didn't have the extra material.
K+N is such a case. Against a lone king, there is no helpmate; no matter how hard white and black try to cooperate, you just can't mate.
When there's an extra piece on the board (against a knight, that's anything but a queen), that extra piece can trap its king in and allow mate.
In your case:
Lichess approximates the FIDE rules, which are different. The FIDE rules state that running out of time is a loss so long as there exists a sequence of legal moves that result in the flagged side getting mated.
It doesn't have to be forced, and it doesn't matter how stupid the moves would be. So long as a sequence of legal moves exists that results in your getting mated, you lose when you run out of time.
This has the effect that sometimes having extra material means you could trap your own king, allowing a legal sequence of moves leading to mate, where such a sequence would NOT exist if you didn't have the extra material.
K+N is such a case. Against a lone king, there is no helpmate; no matter how hard white and black try to cooperate, you just can't mate.
When there's an extra piece on the board (against a knight, that's anything but a queen), that extra piece can trap its king in and allow mate.
In your case:
Actually, to clarify, Most sites use FIDE rules... International rules. Only CC uses the USCF rule, which is archaic. USCF is an advertiser/sponsor on CC, hence the policy.
I understand the computer allowing the game to go on if there was enough time for me to "trap" my own king. But the clock ran out with neither side able to force a win. I think it should be a draw. You are saying that if the game ran long enough and I was really dumb, I would lose. The clock ranout, neither one of us had sufficient mating material to win so it should be a draw.
@fasttony
As I stated in the first place, those are the FIDE rules. It doesn't matter how dumb the moves would have to be. Clearly the material was sufficient to mate, since I demonstrated a mate by the 7th move.
Also, it's not like the alternate rules are free of such silliness.
The moves required to lose with king, two queens, three rooks, and two pawns against king and pawn are even more ridiculous, but all flagging rules say that's a win.
6 of one, half dozen of another. All rules about what positions are lost and which aren't when one side flags have some results that some people find weird/unfair/stupid.
Regardless of the rule set, the only ways to make sure you don't lose such position are to 1) play faster (you chose to play a sudden death time control and then got lower on time than your opponent; this is the risk you face doing that), or 2) play with some small increment so you can actually demonstrate the draw if you have to.
@mdinnerspace That's not true. Of the major sites ICC and FICS also use the USCF rules.
In fact, until relatively recently (the advent of chess24, the change of the rules on lichess to approximate FIDE), the only one of the "major" (a bit fuzzy, but for me this was ICC,FICS,chess.com,lichess, and now chess24) servers that used the FIDE rules was playchess.
The USCF rules are just simpler to code, is all (although merely approximating FIDE rules to match in the vast majority of actually achieved positions, as lichess has done isn't too much longer, since there are only a handful of other rules to implement).
As I stated in the first place, those are the FIDE rules. It doesn't matter how dumb the moves would have to be. Clearly the material was sufficient to mate, since I demonstrated a mate by the 7th move.
Also, it's not like the alternate rules are free of such silliness.
The moves required to lose with king, two queens, three rooks, and two pawns against king and pawn are even more ridiculous, but all flagging rules say that's a win.
6 of one, half dozen of another. All rules about what positions are lost and which aren't when one side flags have some results that some people find weird/unfair/stupid.
Regardless of the rule set, the only ways to make sure you don't lose such position are to 1) play faster (you chose to play a sudden death time control and then got lower on time than your opponent; this is the risk you face doing that), or 2) play with some small increment so you can actually demonstrate the draw if you have to.
@mdinnerspace That's not true. Of the major sites ICC and FICS also use the USCF rules.
In fact, until relatively recently (the advent of chess24, the change of the rules on lichess to approximate FIDE), the only one of the "major" (a bit fuzzy, but for me this was ICC,FICS,chess.com,lichess, and now chess24) servers that used the FIDE rules was playchess.
The USCF rules are just simpler to code, is all (although merely approximating FIDE rules to match in the vast majority of actually achieved positions, as lichess has done isn't too much longer, since there are only a handful of other rules to implement).
@fasttony
The rules apply to blitz chess.
Blitz chess is as much about playing the clock as checkmating.
You said your time ran out. The game ends in your loss.
For the umpteenth time, A King + Knight is sufficient mating material.
You are choosing to play a fast time control on the internet. If such possible endings are not to the liking, it's very simple.
Play with increment. Issue solved.
The rules apply to blitz chess.
Blitz chess is as much about playing the clock as checkmating.
You said your time ran out. The game ends in your loss.
For the umpteenth time, A King + Knight is sufficient mating material.
You are choosing to play a fast time control on the internet. If such possible endings are not to the liking, it's very simple.
Play with increment. Issue solved.
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