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This is America

#1

Donald Trump told Americans exactly what he planned to do.

He would use military force against his political opponents. He would fire thousands of career public servants. He would deport millions of immigrants in military-style roundups. He would crush the independence of the Department of Justice, use government to push public health conspiracies and abandon America’s allies abroad. He would turn the government into a tool of his own grievances, a way to punish his critics and richly reward his supporters. He would be a “dictator” — if only on Day 1.

And, when asked to give him the power to do all of that, the voters said yes.

Donald Trump told Americans exactly what he planned to do. He would use military force against his political opponents. He would fire thousands of career public servants. He would deport millions of immigrants in military-style roundups. He would crush the independence of the Department of Justice, use government to push public health conspiracies and abandon America’s allies abroad. He would turn the government into a tool of his own grievances, a way to punish his critics and richly reward his supporters. He would be a “dictator” — if only on Day 1. And, when asked to give him the power to do all of that, the voters said yes.
#2

My Trumper friends don’t believe he will do the majority of the things he ran on, most notably the blanket tariffs on all imported goods.

Funny, most people get mad when a candidate doesn’t follow through on their campaign promises, and the Trumpers are all banking on it.

All I can say is I hope they’re right.

Having babies who can’t be vaccinated for certain diseases yet, I have to say my major concern is RFK jr running the health department.

My Trumper friends don’t believe he will do the majority of the things he ran on, most notably the blanket tariffs on all imported goods. Funny, most people get mad when a candidate doesn’t follow through on their campaign promises, and the Trumpers are all banking on it. All I can say is I hope they’re right. Having babies who can’t be vaccinated for certain diseases yet, I have to say my major concern is RFK jr running the health department.
#4

@Jchess202 said in #1:

Donald Trump told Americans exactly what he planned to do.

He would use military force against his political opponents. He would fire thousands of career public servants. He would deport millions of immigrants in military-style roundups. He would crush the independence of the Department of Justice, use government to push public health conspiracies and abandon America’s allies abroad. He would turn the government into a tool of his own grievances, a way to punish his critics and richly reward his supporters. He would be a “dictator” — if only on Day 1.

And, when asked to give him the power to do all of that, the voters said yes.

I totally agree with you. It is truly shocking that after 250 years of democracy Americans chose autocracy.

@Jchess202 said in #1: > Donald Trump told Americans exactly what he planned to do. > > He would use military force against his political opponents. He would fire thousands of career public servants. He would deport millions of immigrants in military-style roundups. He would crush the independence of the Department of Justice, use government to push public health conspiracies and abandon America’s allies abroad. He would turn the government into a tool of his own grievances, a way to punish his critics and richly reward his supporters. He would be a “dictator” — if only on Day 1. > > And, when asked to give him the power to do all of that, the voters said yes. ------ I totally agree with you. It is truly shocking that after 250 years of democracy Americans chose autocracy.
#5

To preface, I would like this discussion to remain as civil as possible. I do not want to start any fights across the Lichess forums, nor do I want anyone to get banned for harsh arguments. I am simply placing my own opinions out here in this thread, y'all can feel free to agree, disagree, or challenge what I believe.

@Jchess202 said in #1:

Donald Trump told Americans exactly what he planned to do.

He would use military force against his political opponents. He would fire thousands of career public servants. He would deport millions of immigrants in military-style roundups. He would crush the independence of the Department of Justice, use government to push public health conspiracies and abandon America’s allies abroad. He would turn the government into a tool of his own grievances, a way to punish his critics and richly reward his supporters. He would be a “dictator” — if only on Day 1.

And, when asked to give him the power to do all of that, the voters said yes.

Well, there will be deportation, but immigrants have shown up here illegally. I don't have a problem with immigration, but it isn't correct that they should just enter without becoming a citizen if they want to be here permanently. And just look at what's happened to Trump - there were assassination attempts on him, multiple indictments and charges, impeachments, so much more to list... His political opponents are rather extreme as well, they always want to stop him and will use force to do so; his opponents have used and abused their position and the position of government organizations like the DOJ to indict him on anything they see as a problem. And don't even get me started on abortion!

@Black-Swan-22 said in #4:

I totally agree with you. It is truly shocking that after 250 years of democracy Americans chose autocracy.

When the Constitution was written, it clearly states the following: "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government..." (check it out and see for yourself https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artIV-S4-1/ALDE_00013635/#:~:text=Article%20IV%2C%20Section%204%3A,be%20convened)%20against%20domestic%20Violence.

A democracy is different from a republic - In a republic, the people decide who they should elect while limiting that person's power; in this case, the majority of votes, both electoral and popular, have decided on Donald Trump. A democracy gives total power to whoever is an elected official. If you study the Constitution, it clearly limits the power of our American leaders.

Now let's name a scenario in which Trump has disobeyed the Constitution...

To preface, I would like this discussion to remain as civil as possible. I do not want to start any fights across the Lichess forums, nor do I want anyone to get banned for harsh arguments. I am simply placing my own opinions out here in this thread, y'all can feel free to agree, disagree, or challenge what I believe. @Jchess202 said in #1: > Donald Trump told Americans exactly what he planned to do. > > He would use military force against his political opponents. He would fire thousands of career public servants. He would deport millions of immigrants in military-style roundups. He would crush the independence of the Department of Justice, use government to push public health conspiracies and abandon America’s allies abroad. He would turn the government into a tool of his own grievances, a way to punish his critics and richly reward his supporters. He would be a “dictator” — if only on Day 1. > > And, when asked to give him the power to do all of that, the voters said yes. Well, there will be deportation, but immigrants have shown up here illegally. I don't have a problem with immigration, but it isn't correct that they should just enter without becoming a citizen if they want to be here permanently. And just look at what's happened to Trump - there were assassination attempts on him, multiple indictments and charges, impeachments, so much more to list... His political opponents are rather extreme as well, they always want to stop him and will use force to do so; his opponents have used and abused their position and the position of government organizations like the DOJ to indict him on anything they see as a problem. And don't even get me started on abortion! @Black-Swan-22 said in #4: > ------ > > I totally agree with you. It is truly shocking that after 250 years of democracy Americans chose autocracy. When the Constitution was written, it clearly states the following: "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government..." (check it out and see for yourself https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artIV-S4-1/ALDE_00013635/#:~:text=Article%20IV%2C%20Section%204%3A,be%20convened)%20against%20domestic%20Violence. A democracy is different from a republic - In a republic, the people decide who they should elect while limiting that person's power; in this case, the majority of votes, both electoral and popular, have decided on Donald Trump. A democracy gives total power to whoever is an elected official. If you study the Constitution, it clearly limits the power of our American leaders. Now let's name a scenario in which Trump has disobeyed the Constitution...
#6

@KDMFan said in #5:

Now let's name a scenario in which Trump has disobeyed the Constitution...

He has outright violated the emoluments clause...a lot. Unfortunately our checks and balances were broken, and are now bent to his will, so nothing was nor will be done about it.

@KDMFan said in #5: > Now let's name a scenario in which Trump has disobeyed the Constitution... He has outright violated the emoluments clause...a lot. Unfortunately our checks and balances were broken, and are now bent to his will, so nothing was nor will be done about it.
#7

#6:

emoluments clause

Who has given him what?

I promise you his power is limited.

Name a scenario where he abused power.

#6: > emoluments clause Who has given him what? I promise you his power is limited. Name a scenario where he abused power.
#8

Yes, so we can perhaps agree on one thing:

Democracy (either way) is bad for your health....

Yes, so we can perhaps agree on one thing: Democracy (either way) is bad for your health....
#9

@Jchess202 said in #1:

First of all, what's the Trump panic? Of course, America has reached the brink. Was there really no young, energetic politician? Here is at least the current speaker. What Trump will do is unknown, but in any case, there is a chance to avoid the catastrophe to which the senile Biden and Madame Kamala (Obama's project) were leading. And with emigration, the most energetic measures must be taken, and not only in America, but also in Europe. People are fleeing their countries, but they are not trying to integrate into a new environment, but impose their values, not realizing that in this case it will be bad as where they fled from.

@Jchess202 said in #1: > First of all, what's the Trump panic? Of course, America has reached the brink. Was there really no young, energetic politician? Here is at least the current speaker. What Trump will do is unknown, but in any case, there is a chance to avoid the catastrophe to which the senile Biden and Madame Kamala (Obama's project) were leading. And with emigration, the most energetic measures must be taken, and not only in America, but also in Europe. People are fleeing their countries, but they are not trying to integrate into a new environment, but impose their values, not realizing that in this case it will be bad as where they fled from.
#10

@Jchess202 said in #1:

And, when asked to give him the power to do all of that, the voters said yes.

No, they didn't. They simply chose one side, which is the only thing voters can do in a general election.

If you look at the #1 issue for voters, it was "Democracy". Harris is directly in favor of packing the Supreme Court and abolishing the filibuster just to advance Democrats' agendas. This would effectively shatter the idea of checks and balances, which is the entire basis of the branches of government.

She is in favor of direct government censorship on social media, ostensibly to control misinformation, but this would inevitably lead to government surpressing political dissent. In order to be an effective form of government, Democracy requires an independently well-informed populace to function.

Another top issue was economy - when voters think about "economy" they don't think about GDP or unemployment rate, or national debt. They really mean their purchasing power. Harris would enact a tax on unrealized capital gains, which is.. frankly insane. She is not in favor of keeping the Trump tax cuts and jobs act, which lowered income taxes across the board - this is the main tax that most Americans pay, so it affects them directly by allowing them to keep more of their earned money in their pockets.

Harris is also in support of giving first-time homebuyers financial support to buy houses. This would do nothing but balloon the price of housing, as if it wasn't already unaffordable.

Trump's policies would guarantee lower oil prices, which reduces the cost of almost everything else. This again directly makes life easier for most Americans. Kamala is not in favor of drilling and fracking, which is positive environmentally but not attractive to voters when there's an affordability crisis in the country.

The fact that Harris will lose every single swing state and the popular vote by ~5m votes is not because voters love Trump's vile rhetoric. You're burying your head in the sand if you believe this. It's because Harris was such an awful candidate that they had to pick the alternative.

@Jchess202 said in #1: > And, when asked to give him the power to do all of that, the voters said yes. No, they didn't. They simply chose one side, which is the only thing voters can do in a general election. If you look at the #1 issue for voters, it was "Democracy". Harris is directly in favor of packing the Supreme Court and abolishing the filibuster just to advance Democrats' agendas. This would effectively shatter the idea of checks and balances, which is the entire basis of the branches of government. She is in favor of direct government censorship on social media, ostensibly to control misinformation, but this would inevitably lead to government surpressing political dissent. In order to be an effective form of government, Democracy requires an independently well-informed populace to function. Another top issue was economy - when voters think about "economy" they don't think about GDP or unemployment rate, or national debt. They really mean their purchasing power. Harris would enact a tax on unrealized capital gains, which is.. frankly insane. She is not in favor of keeping the Trump tax cuts and jobs act, which lowered income taxes across the board - this is the main tax that most Americans pay, so it affects them directly by allowing them to keep more of their earned money in their pockets. Harris is also in support of giving first-time homebuyers financial support to buy houses. This would do nothing but balloon the price of housing, as if it wasn't already unaffordable. Trump's policies would guarantee lower oil prices, which reduces the cost of almost everything else. This again directly makes life easier for most Americans. Kamala is not in favor of drilling and fracking, which is positive environmentally but not attractive to voters when there's an affordability crisis in the country. The fact that Harris will lose every single swing state and the popular vote by ~5m votes is not because voters love Trump's vile rhetoric. You're burying your head in the sand if you believe this. It's because Harris was such an awful candidate that they had to pick the alternative.

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