- There are no such things as 100% chances in medicine. Those are predicted based on modelling, evidence, and reasoning. Like in all statistical sets, there are outliers, and cannot logically prove the existence of the Christian God.
- I provided seemingly logical reasons for not trusting scripture. @J_SEDA_conant said in #16:
Because it is the law and basic rules of how it works. Without scripture from the Bible, everything I say becomes irrelevant as there would be nothing to back it up. It’s like saying “prove x without providing evidence”. It just doesn’t work, as there is nothing to back up any points.
You cannot logically defend the belief that you hold so strongly in scripture. You instead resort to a false premise, proclaiming scripture to be true, while I do not. I provide my reasons, and your argument turns into "It's true because I believe it to be".
Without scripture from the Bible, everything I say becomes irrelevant as there would be nothing to back it up.
Exactly. It is entirely circular. You can't justify your belief in the obective values of scripture by quoting scripture. That is illogical. If you don't accept that, then this discussion will be of no use.
Let's say that I accept that scripture is obective law (Obviously I don't, but this is for the sake of discussion). What is the threshold for spiritual death? Since mortals are not perfect, like God, then how can one actually get into Heaven when sin, which is something all mortals commit, causes irreversible spiritual death?
This isn't meant to be some "le epic anti-religious takedown" by the way.
1. There are no such things as 100% chances in medicine. Those are predicted based on modelling, evidence, and reasoning. Like in all statistical sets, there are outliers, and cannot logically prove the existence of the Christian God.
3. I provided seemingly logical reasons for not trusting scripture. @J_SEDA_conant said in #16:
> Because it is the law and basic rules of how it works. Without scripture from the Bible, everything I say becomes irrelevant as there would be nothing to back it up. It’s like saying “prove x without providing evidence”. It just doesn’t work, as there is nothing to back up any points.
You cannot logically defend the belief that you hold so strongly in scripture. You instead resort to a false premise, proclaiming scripture to be true, while I do not. I provide my reasons, and your argument turns into "It's true because I believe it to be".
> Without scripture from the Bible, everything I say becomes irrelevant as there would be nothing to back it up.
Exactly. It is entirely circular. You can't justify your belief in the obective values of scripture by quoting scripture. That is illogical. If you don't accept that, then this discussion will be of no use.
Let's say that I accept that scripture is obective law (Obviously I don't, but this is for the sake of discussion). What is the threshold for spiritual death? Since mortals are not perfect, like God, then how can one actually get into Heaven when sin, which is something all mortals commit, causes irreversible spiritual death?
This isn't meant to be some "le epic anti-religious takedown" by the way.
Yawn....
If you read the Bible all the question posted would be answered.
If you read the Bible all the question posted would be answered.
I have failed to win the Lotto five times in a row, despite fervent prayers prior to every draw.
As far as I'm concerned, that's incontrovertible proof of this particular negative.
I shall, however, persist in my prayer-assisted efforts to become obscenely rich without putting in any effort just in case
a God pops into existence at some time.
I have failed to win the Lotto five times in a row, despite fervent prayers prior to every draw.
As far as I'm concerned, that's incontrovertible proof of this particular negative.
I shall, however, persist in my prayer-assisted efforts to become obscenely rich without putting in any effort just in case
a God pops into existence at some time.
@SpeedRunTo2100 said in #1:
1.No evidence
2.It’s illogical
In the absence of evidence, some people try to argue that there “must be” a God because nothing else makes sense
3.The preponderance of suffering
The existence of suffering is an impossible problem for believers in an all-good, caring God to solve. Even if they use the wiggle room to argue that without some suffering there can be no charity; or that people who do wrong are punished, they cannot account for the suffering of innocent children and animals, or worse, the devout believers in their faith.
What kind of God, we may ask – and Fry does, more colourfully – has created a world in which children die in floods, starve to death, perish in agony from TB and malaria? What kind of God allows people who worship and adore him to be murdered, raped, tortured and come to countless other hideous ends?
This does not preclude the existence of any God, of course. God might be, as Fry has it, a maniac. He may be a vicious, sadistic God. Or, like the Greeks and Romans before us, he may be a pantheon of narcissistic Gods who have no interest in looking out for us.
4.We don’t need him
5.Life’s better without him
Religion is about control and limitation. Rules, laws and rituals that restrict and govern behaviour. In some cases – say the genital mutilation of infants in barbaric rites of passage practised by religions such as Judiasm – they actually persuade nice people to do awful things.
this forum is illogical. this world can't have just popped up out of nowhere. somebody most have created it: God.
@SpeedRunTo2100 said in #1:
> 1.No evidence
> 2.It’s illogical
> In the absence of evidence, some people try to argue that there “must be” a God because nothing else makes sense
> 3.The preponderance of suffering
> The existence of suffering is an impossible problem for believers in an all-good, caring God to solve. Even if they use the wiggle room to argue that without some suffering there can be no charity; or that people who do wrong are punished, they cannot account for the suffering of innocent children and animals, or worse, the devout believers in their faith.
>
> What kind of God, we may ask – and Fry does, more colourfully – has created a world in which children die in floods, starve to death, perish in agony from TB and malaria? What kind of God allows people who worship and adore him to be murdered, raped, tortured and come to countless other hideous ends?
>
> This does not preclude the existence of any God, of course. God might be, as Fry has it, a maniac. He may be a vicious, sadistic God. Or, like the Greeks and Romans before us, he may be a pantheon of narcissistic Gods who have no interest in looking out for us.
> 4.We don’t need him
> 5.Life’s better without him
> Religion is about control and limitation. Rules, laws and rituals that restrict and govern behaviour. In some cases – say the genital mutilation of infants in barbaric rites of passage practised by religions such as Judiasm – they actually persuade nice people to do awful things.
this forum is illogical. this world can't have just popped up out of nowhere. somebody most have created it: God.
@obladie said in #24:
I have failed to win the Lotto five times in a row, despite fervent prayers prior to every draw.
As far as I'm concerned, that's incontrovertible proof of this particular negative.
I shall, however, persist in my prayer-assisted efforts to become obscenely rich without putting in any effort just in case
a God pops into existence at some time.
that's not going to work. God doesn't care about riches. and, what it sounds like here, you are testing God. you have to have faith that Jesus was the son of God, came down from heaven, was crucified, dead and buried. then rose again on the third day, defeating death, and giving humanity a second chance.
@obladie said in #24:
> I have failed to win the Lotto five times in a row, despite fervent prayers prior to every draw.
> As far as I'm concerned, that's incontrovertible proof of this particular negative.
> I shall, however, persist in my prayer-assisted efforts to become obscenely rich without putting in any effort just in case
> a God pops into existence at some time.
that's not going to work. God doesn't care about riches. and, what it sounds like here, you are testing God. you have to have faith that Jesus was the son of God, came down from heaven, was crucified, dead and buried. then rose again on the third day, defeating death, and giving humanity a second chance.
@ALucasM said in #26:
that's not going to work. God doesn't care about riches. and, what it sounds like here, you are testing God. you have to have faith that Jesus was the son of God, came down from heaven, was crucified, dead and buried. then rose again on the third day, defeating death, and giving humanity a second chance.
Nah..yeah..nah...
@ALucasM said in #26:
> that's not going to work. God doesn't care about riches. and, what it sounds like here, you are testing God. you have to have faith that Jesus was the son of God, came down from heaven, was crucified, dead and buried. then rose again on the third day, defeating death, and giving humanity a second chance.
Nah..yeah..nah...
@SpeedRunTo2100 said in #3:
Nobody created us
Have you heard of the "big bang" theory my friend :))
Dude, You've literally been brainwashed :)
GOD DOESN'T EXIST
Also yessss life's extremely good without god :)
the Big bang is a theory. it does not work. some one must have created earth. it can't have popped right into existence. i could argue much more, and much better in person, but i am not seeing you right now. (frankly, i don't want to)
@SpeedRunTo2100 said in #3:
> Nobody created us
> Have you heard of the "big bang" theory my friend :))
> Dude, You've literally been brainwashed :)
> GOD DOESN'T EXIST
> Also yessss life's extremely good without god :)
the Big bang is a theory. it does not work. some one must have created earth. it can't have popped right into existence. i could argue much more, and much better in person, but i am not seeing you right now. (frankly, i don't want to)
@ALucasM said in #28:
the Big bang is a theory. it does not work. some one must have created earth. it can't have popped right into existence. i could argue much more, and much better in person, but i am not seeing you right now. (frankly, i don't want to)
God is also a theory. But a theory with as yet no proof to support it.
@ALucasM said in #28:
> the Big bang is a theory. it does not work. some one must have created earth. it can't have popped right into existence. i could argue much more, and much better in person, but i am not seeing you right now. (frankly, i don't want to)
God is also a theory. But a theory with as yet no proof to support it.
@obladie said in #27:
Nah..yeah..nah...
i have been a believer all my life. things don't just happen because we want them to. i don't want it to rain tomorrow because it will be my birthday, but it probably will! it is God's will whatever happens. you don't believe, I don't think, and if you don't, let me help you. let me just tell you this: Jesus has given everybody; me, you, and even @SpeedRunTo2100 ! so take it, i beg.
@obladie said in #27:
> Nah..yeah..nah...
i have been a believer all my life. things don't just happen because we want them to. i don't want it to rain tomorrow because it will be my birthday, but it probably will! it is God's will whatever happens. you don't believe, I don't think, and if you don't, let me help you. let me just tell you this: Jesus has given everybody; me, you, and even @SpeedRunTo2100 ! so take it, i beg.