Creation vs. Atheism

RE: @havfanridindis

--Quote--
So what you quoted was scripture after all. The only problem is that quoting the Bible doesn't give your words any credibility if you first haven't demostrated the Bible to be true and factual, which you haven't. You say the non believers don't accept the Bible as factual all the while you haven't given us any good reason to think that it's factual beside the classic "we know it in our hearts" and "God has revealed it". Give an actual reason first and then we can discuss about its validity.
--End of Quote--
There are many facts which the Bible contains which are and have been proven by science. For example the science which you put much faith in up until the 18th century declared the earth was flat. The Bible presented the correct shape.

Isaiah 40:22
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
The word translated “circle” here is the Hebrew word chuwg which is also translated “circuit,” or “compass” (depending on the context). That is, it indicates something spherical, rounded, or arched—not something that is flat or square.

Here is a link which will you find factual truths presented by the Bible.
http://clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

--Quote--
As you pointed out, the problem is the perspective from which each views things. You view the world from the point of view of the Bible. You're already convinced that it's the word of God and you merely look at the world searching for things to validate that viewpoint. You observe things and make those observations fit your interpretations as do all the religions and that's how we get so many contadicting beliefs. On the other hand, we look at the world from a neutral point of view and follow our observations to their logical conclusions, instead of trying to fit the observations in our pre-existing, narrow-minded idea of what reality should be or what we've been brought up to believe cause of our geographic location.
--End of Quote--

Untrue, we do not "search the world" to validate our viewpoint but rather, we observe the Word of God and the world and the things therein support the truth we find in His word. Just as I cited in the example above, the Word of the Lord tells us the world is round not flat. It took centuries before science decided the Bible was correct.

I do admit there are many in the Church who look to the world and try to bring into symmetry the concepts and ideas of it and our faith. Those of us within the Church who believe in Sola-Scriptura, the belief that the Bible is the sole means by which all truth necessary for truth and salvation are held within its sacred pages do not need the world to validate us, but rather we validate the world.

Granted it does not reveal everything about DNA, microbiology, how to speak Chinese or the best moves in chess. It does not contain all knowledge or information. When the world of science and Faith collide, then with careful discernment the issue can be rectified. If not, then it will take a while longer, but it is guaranteed the world's point of view will be proven wrong.

So far, I have not seen any argumentation which would disprove anything held within the pages of the Bible. So, therefore, it is a reliable source of information for any subject matter which is covered by scripture.

I will leave you with the last thought and last word.

The Bible describes the chemical nature of flesh.
Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Genesis 3:19
In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.

When you return to dust, you will either be dead and be dead for a very long time or awaken to a world of fire and brimstone. I suggest by believing the Word of the Lord you will avert the latter. If it is true we return to dust and are just dead, we will always have the comfort of living a good life by following the teachings of the Bible.

@solacriptura About the round earth, a disk is also round and circular, not only a sphere and there are many Christian flat earthers out there who read what you read and they interpreted as a flat disk. So don't go and present it as one of the examples of the Bible being correct cause it can be interpreted in more than one ways. (Also a compass is closer to a flat disk)

With that being said, you are right, I'm sure there are some exmples in which the things in the Bible are actually true. But I said to give me reasons to think the book is true, not some things in it that happen to be consistent with reality. You think that says anything about the whole book? You'll find some true things in there and you'll find some dead wrong things as well. (for which I'll give examples) If I write a book with half truths and half lies, then that makes my book as a whole not a reliable source of information unless we had a way to distinguish the truths from the lies. If you go and point out the true things in a book while not knowing about the rest, then that still doesn't prove the whole book as true, even if you haven't happened to find any lies yet. Let alone the Bible which is filled with contradictions with science and only a few consistent things.

"So far, I have not seen any argumentation which would disprove anything held within the pages of the Bible. So, therefore, it is a reliable source of information for any subject matter which is covered by scripture."

This sequence of sentences is so logically incoherent that it's painful to read. Even if the premise was true and there was no argumentation against it (which is not) then the conclusion still wouldn't follow. "I haven't seen this book containing any lies yet therefore, everything it says is true". "My friend hasn't lied to me yet, therefore he'll always be a flawlessly honest person" When something hasn't been demosntrated to be false, it doesn't mean it's true.

But it doesn't matter cause the premise is wrong anyway. I've written paragraphs about things that are clearly wrong in the Bible in previous posts so I'll do some copy pasting:

The age of the earth and the universe, the origin of humans, the flood, the fact that demons don't cause diseases but microorganisms do, the fact that a blood ritual with dead birds isn't the actual cure for Leprosy, the realization that having rules about how to properly enforce slavery such as those in "Exodus 21"probably isn't that moral and also stoning your unruly children to death and sacking cities of believers of other Gods isn't that moral either. It merely reflects the predominant culture and moral laws that humans had back then and the properties and attributes of God such as kindness, justice, benevolance etc reflect the characteristics of a perfect, righteous human as visualized by people at the time. There are actually many many more examples. These were just off the top of my head and not even mentioning the inherent contradictions within the Bible alone.

But since you shared a link, here you go:
www.news24.com/MyNews24/The-Problem-of-the-Bible-Inaccuracies-contradictions-fallacies-scientific-issues-and-more-20120517

It even has the verses next to the quotes so you can search them youeself if you want.

Of coure, when you are already convinced that the Bible is the word of God and you don't start from a neutral perspective to try to find out if that's actually the case, then you'll give weight to only the things that allign with reality and ignore all the rest that are wrong, as you demonstrated.

"Those of us within the Church who believe in Sola-Scriptura, the belief that the Bible is the sole means by which all truth necessary for truth and salvation are held within its sacred pages do not need the world to validate us, but rather we validate the world."

Thank you for demostrating my point about perspectives. You take scripture as being the ultimate truth while having no actual justification for it and then you validate the world using it as you very well put it. You take pride in knowing the ultimate truth while logical thinkers are humble enough to admit they don't know ultimate truths. You don't care about objective truth, you care about making the world fit into your narrow-minded bubble of what you've presupposed as truth.

You can see your own narrow mindness easily if you ask yourself "what would change your mind and make you question your worldview?" Your answer is probably something like "nothing will ever make me question the word of God" In your mind, your presupposed worldview will always be right no matter what, no matter how much overwhelming evidence we ever find against it. That's your problem, your predisposed mind can't recieve new data without filtering it through what the Scripture has to say about it. You clearly demonstrated that here: "When the world of science and Faith collide, then with careful discernment the issue can be rectified. If not, then it will take a while longer, but it is guaranteed the world's point of view will be proven wrong." A critical thinker doesn't do that. I won't make an observation fit my expectations. I will look at new data and adapt my beliefs accordingly. If the day comes when God is demostrated to be real, I'll embrace the new fact. I let facts guide my beliefs. I let the world as observed, shape my worldview, I don't let my already fixed idea of reality shape my perception of the world. Cause I value objective truth and truth alone.

"When you return to dust, you will either be dead and be dead for a very long time or awaken to a world of fire and brimstone. I suggest by believing the Word of the Lord you will avert the latter. If it is true we return to dust and are just dead, we will always have the comfort of living a good life by following the teachings of the Bible."

Finally, what you demonstrated here is Pascal's wager. Why risk going to hell? You can just believe and be safe, living a comfortable life. It doesn't work for 2 reasons. First, belief is not a choice, it's a compulsion achieved through convincing arguements, evidence and trust. I don't choose what I believe cause I percieve it as the safest or more attractive option, I am compelled to believe what I think is true, wether I like it or not. And second, even if I had the choice, I'd have 4000 religions to choose from plus their denominations none of which are substantiated, while at the same time all claiming to know the true word of God. Or as Tywin would put it: "Madness, madness and stupidity"

@havfanridindis

Actually, the Bible for thousands of years had some of the best laws against slavery. Slavery has existed across all inhabited continents and cultures. Whites enslaved blacks resulting in the creation of the Republican Party to free the slaves, and blacks enslaved whites (see the Barbary Wars, fought because North African Islamic nations from the 1770s to 1815 kept hijacking U.S. ships to capture white Americans for the African slave trade). Slavery still continues to be a major problem in some parts of the world (especially Asia and Africa).

Christians by the way played a major role in eliminating slavery in the United States. Roger Williams founded the Christian colony of Rhode Island, America's first baptist church, and America's first anti-slavery organization. William Penn's Christian colony of Rhode Island, run by the Quakers, would outlaw slavery early on, and the Quakers played a major role in opposing slavery during the early United States. Churches played a major role in the Underground Railroad, and a book written by a Christian, Harriet Beecher Stowe's Uncle Tom's Cabin, helped spark anti-slavery sentiment leading to the Civil War.

My pages covering the subject of the Bible and slavery are here:

biblestrength.com/Slavery

biblestrength.com/Dawkins%27_Criticisms#Racist

I have another page on the history of civil rights and politics here:

http://defendingconservatism.com/info/Civil_Rights

The Bible commanded that escaped slaves be given safe haven:

Deuteronomy 23:15-16 Thou shalt not deliver unto his master the servant which is escaped from his master unto thee: He shall dwell with thee, even among you, in that place which he shall choose in one of thy gates, where it liketh him best: thou shalt not oppress him.

Those who enslaved others were to be put to death:

Exodus 21:16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.

Any injury to a slave, however minor, even loss of a tooth, was to result in their freedom:

Exodus 21:26-27 And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake.

The Bible refers to two concepts, indentured servants and slavery. The Bible required that Israelites be freed every seven years (the Year of Jubilee) and every fiftieth year, twice each century, all slaves were to be completely freed along with their possessions; thus encouraging Israelites to buy slaves from other countries so they would be continually freed.

Leviticus 25:8 And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years.
9 Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.
10 And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family.

As I stated on my page, "If so, then the nation of Israel was unique in the world by designing a system which would actually perpetually free slaves from that entire area of the world, making it profitable to buy slaves from other countries, let them serve to pay their debts off, and then free them. In such a way it would have allowed God to continually free slaves from the entire Middle East region."

In the New Testament, Paul's letter to Philemon was written by Paul calling for a slaveowner to free his slave Onesimus-the two ended up working side by side with each other for the Gospel.

Also, the Bible does not support racism; racism is a hallmark of Social Darwinism and National Socialism (see the Nazi Party e.g.). The Bible says we should not look differently at others because of their skin color, that God made all people with the same blood, and when Aaron and Miriam discriminated against Moses' Ethiopian wife, God showed a wry sense of humor in punishing Miriam with leprosy so that her skin became "white as snow."

Song 1:5-6 I am black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon. Look not upon me, because I am black, because the sun hath looked upon me: my mother's children were angry with me; they made me the keeper of the vineyards; but mine own vineyard have I not kept.

Numbers 12:1 And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.
2 And they said, Hath the LORD indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us? And the LORD heard it.
Numbers 12:9 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against them; and he departed.
10 ¶ And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow: and Aaron looked upon Miriam, and, behold, she was leprous.
11 And Aaron said unto Moses, Alas, my lord, I beseech thee, lay not the sin upon us, wherein we have done foolishly, and wherein we have sinned.
12 Let her not be as one dead, of whom the flesh is half consumed when he cometh out of his mother's womb.
13 And Moses cried unto the LORD, saying, Heal her now, O God, I beseech thee.
14 And the LORD said unto Moses, If her father had but spit in her face, should she not be ashamed seven days? let her be shut out from the camp seven days, and after that let her be received in again.

Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

As for the Canaanite nations God destroyed, that was because they were committing horrible crimes that were spreading to other nations, including the abomination of child sacrifice. Israel nonetheless disobeyed and did not destroy some of the nations, and incurred God's wrath by committing the same practice of child sacrifice God warned them not to adopt.

biblestrength.com/Destruction_of_Canaanites

Leviticus 18:21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD...
Leviticus 18:24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.

Deuteronomy 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Leviticus 20:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.
3 And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name.
4 And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not:
5 Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people.

Deuteronomy 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.
31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.

The pagan nations would burn their own children alive in sacrifice to Baal and Molech, and then eat their own children. (Psalms 106:28-35). Israel by following the practices of such evil nations made God so furious that he finally sent them into captivity in Babylon to punish them. (Jeremiah 7:30-34; Ezekiel 16:20-21; 20:31; 23:36-39) God's actions were done to prevent a horrific practice from spreading worldwide, a practice of murdering children.

Wow, what an amazing cherry picking of verses that suit you that was. Is that what churches preach to believers? I'm actually curious. I doubt that you've even read the whole Bible, with the things you said. Please allow me to return the favor:

"Actually, the Bible for thousands of years had some of the best laws against slavery."

Here's verses form Exodus 21 untouched, unlike your biblestrength site taking them out of context:

"_______21 “These are the laws you are to set before them:

Hebrew Servants
2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.

5 “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life.

7 “If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself,[b] he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.

Personal Injuries
12 “Anyone who strikes a person with a fatal blow is to be put to death. 13 However, if it is not done intentionally, but God lets it happen, they are to flee to a place I will designate. 14 But if anyone schemes and kills someone deliberately, that person is to be taken from my altar and put to death.

15 “Anyone who attacks[c] their father or mother is to be put to death.

16 “Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession.

17 “Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.

18 “If people quarrel and one person hits another with a stone or with their fist[d] and the victim does not die but is confined to bed, 19 the one who struck the blow will not be held liable if the other can get up and walk around outside with a staff; however, the guilty party must pay the injured person for any loss of time and see that the victim is completely healed.

20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

22 “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely[e] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

26 “An owner who hits a male or female slave in the eye and destroys it must let the slave go free to compensate for the eye. 27 And an owner who knocks out the tooth of a male or female slave must let the slave go free to compensate for the tooth.

28 “If a bull gores a man or woman to death, the bull is to be stoned to death, and its meat must not be eaten. But the owner of the bull will not be held responsible. 29 If, however, the bull has had the habit of goring and the owner has been warned but has not kept it penned up and it kills a man or woman, the bull is to be stoned and its owner also is to be put to death. 30 However, if payment is demanded, the owner may redeem his life by the payment of whatever is demanded. 31 This law also applies if the bull gores a son or daughter. 32 If the bull gores a male or female slave, the owner must pay thirty shekels[f] of silver to the master of the slave, and the bull is to be stoned to death.

33 “If anyone uncovers a pit or digs one and fails to cover it and an ox or a donkey falls into it, 34 the one who opened the pit must pay the owner for the loss and take the dead animal in exchange.

35 “If anyone’s bull injures someone else’s bull and it dies, the two parties are to sell the live one and divide both the money and the dead animal equally. 36 However, if it was known that the bull had the habit of goring, yet the owner did not keep it penned up, the owner must pay, animal for animal, and take the dead animal in exchange."_________

I especially like number 20 saying that you can beat your slave as long as he doesn't die, since he's your property after all. It has a nice godly ring to it. But anyway, let's not stop at slavery, there are many more divine laws from ancient times.

All of the following should be punished by death according to the old Testament:

-1866 Having homosexual intercourse between men (Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13).

-1381 Committing adultery between a man and a woman (Leviticus 20:10-12, Deuteronomy 22:22).

-1094 Lying about virginity (Deuteronomy 22:20-21).[4]

-265 Being one of the majority of women who don’t bleed when losing their virginity (Deuteronomy 22:20–21).[5]

-683 Being the daughter of a priest and practicing prostitution (Leviticus 21:9).[6]

-2181 Raping an engaged female virgin (Deuteronomy 22:25).[7]

-719 If an engaged female virgin, being raped in a city (Deuteronomy 22:23-27).[8]

-1822 Being male and practicing bestiality (Leviticus 20:15).[9]

-760 Being female and practicing bestiality (Leviticus 20:16).[9]

-2224 Having sex with your father’s wife (Leviticus 20:20).[10]

-1871 Having sex with your daughter-in-law (Leviticus 20:30).

-2083 Having incestual sex (Leviticus 20:17).

-2151 Marrying a woman and her daughter (Leviticus 20:14).[11]

-475 Having sex with a woman who is menstruating (Leviticus 20:18).

A few of these crimes demand that the "sinners" be burned to death rather than stoned to death, the more usual form of capital punishment. One can wonder why these crimes in particular merit this especially horrible fate.[12]

Food and drink

1300 Consuming blood (Genesis 9:4, Leviticus 17:10).[13]

2559 Eating a cheeseburger or anything that mixes meat and dairy (Exodus 23:19).

-1867 Sacrificing anything with yeast or honey (Leviticus 2:11).

2042 Eating leavened bread (bread with yeast) during the Feast of Unleavened Bread (Exodus 12:15).

2399 Eating fat (Leviticus 3:17).

2319 Eating pork (Leviticus 11:7–8).

-609 Waiting too long before consuming sacrifices (Leviticus 19:5–8).

1835 Eating aquatic creatures lacking fins or scales (Deuteronomy 14:9-10).

2190 Eating any meat not killed according to the Kosher practice (Deuteronomy 12:21).

-227 Eating peace offerings while ritually unclean (Leviticus 7:20).

Religious

201 Being a male who is not circumcised (Genesis 17:14).

-1037 Trying to convert people to another religion (Deuteronomy 13:1-11, Deuteronomy 18:20).[14]

-1031 Worshiping idols (Exodus 22:20, Leviticus 20:1-5, Deuteronomy 17:2-7).

-837 Practicing magic (Exodus 22:18).[15]

1820 Blaspheming (Leviticus 24:14-16,23).

2029 Breaking the Sabbath (Exodus 31:14, Numbers 15:32-36).

-1176 Consulting a psychic or spiritualist (Leviticus 19:31).

-1613 Being a psychic, medium, or spiritualist (Leviticus 20:27).[16]

-104 Being a town that believes in another, non-YHWH god (Deuteronomy 13:12-15).[17]

-1601 Giving one of your descendants to Molech (Leviticus 20:2).[18]

-1343 Not being a priest and going near the tabernacleWikipedia's W.svg when it is being moved (Numbers 1:51).

-1404 Being a false prophet (Deuteronomy 13:5, Deuteronomy 18:20, Zechariah 13:2-3).

1911 Performing any work on the Sabbath (Exodus 20:10).

324 Going to the temple in an unclean state (Numbers 19:13).

-1605 Engaging in ritual animal sacrifices other than at the temple (Leviticus 17:1-9).

-1637 Manufacturing anointing oil (Exodus 30:33).

Violent and legal crimes

-1830 Murdering a slave (Exodus 21:26-27).[19]

-1869 Kidnapping and selling a man (Exodus 21:16).

-1351 Perjuring yourself (in certain cases) (Deuteronomy 19:15-21).[20]

715 Ignoring the judgment of a judge or a priest (Deuteronomy 17:8-13).

-1557 Not constraining a known dangerous bull, if the bull subsequently kills a man or a woman (Exodus 21:29).[21]
Parenting

-891 Striking your parents (Exodus 21:15).

1251 Cursing your parents (Exodus 21:17, Leviticus 20:9).

842 Being a stubborn, rebellious, profligate, and drunkard son (Deuteronomy 21:18-21).[22]

Daily life

520 Planting more than one kind of seed in a field (Leviticus 19:19).

1965 Wearing clothing woven of more than one kind of cloth (Leviticus 19:19).

1717 Cutting the hair on the sides of your head or clipping of the edges of your beard (Leviticus 19:27).[23]

441 Touching the dead carcass of a pig (Deuteronomy 14:8).

496 Dressing across gender lines (Deuteronomy 22:5).

Things that don’t go anywhere else

1002 Living in a city that failed to surrender to the Israelites (Deuteronomy 20:12-14).[24]

New Testament:

Notwithstanding certain episodes where he is claimed to have interpreted laws in a relaxed way (e.g., the Sabbath working law), Jesus did not explicitly say the old laws were now invalid, and dispensations from following them largely came as a result of the spread of Christianity to non-Jews by Paul of Tarsus. On the contrary, Jesus endorses Mosaic Law in Matthew 5:18, where he says, "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."[25]

Slaves

24 Disobedience (Ephesians 6:5).

Women

412 Speaking in church (1 Corinthians 14:34-35).

-118 Homosexual intercourse between women (Romans 1:26).

Men

-648 Homosexual intercourse between men (Romans 1:27).

Then we have the thing about sacking cities that you so greatly justified with a few examples of people actually deserving it. Here are the general rules for believers of other Gods:

Idolaters to Be Put to Death

1If a prophet or dreamer of dreams arises among you and proclaims a sign or wonder to you, 2and if the sign or wonder he has spoken to you comes about, but he says, “Let us follow other gods (which you have not known) and let us worship them,” 3you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. For the LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love Him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4You are to follow the LORD your God and fear Him. Keep His commandments and listen to His voice; serve Him and hold Him fast.

5Such a prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he has advocated rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of slavery, in order to turn you from the way the LORD your God has commanded you to walk. So you must purge the evil from among you.

6If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you embrace,a or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (which neither you nor your fathers have known, 7the gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the earth to the other), 8you must not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity, and do not spare him or shield him.

9Instead, you must surely kill him. Your hand must be the first against him to put him to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10Stone him to death for trying to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 11Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and will never again do such a wicked thing among you.

Idolatrous Cities to Be Destroyed

12If, regarding one of the cities the LORD your God is giving you to inhabit, you hear it said 13that wicked men have arisen from among you and led the people of their city astray, saying, “Let us go and serve other gods” (which you have not known), 14then you must inquire, investigate, and interrogate thoroughly. And if it is established with certainty that this abomination has been committed among you, 15you must surely strike down the inhabitants of that city with the sword. Devote to destructionb all its people and livestock.

16And you are to gather all its plunder in the middle of the public square, and completely burn the city and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. The city must remain a mound of ruins forever, never to be rebuilt.

17Nothing set apart for destruction shall be found in your hands, so that the LORD will turn from His fierce anger, grant you mercy, show you compassion, and multiply you as He swore to your fathers, 18because you obey the LORD your God, keeping all His commandments I am giving you today, doing what is right in the eyes of the LORD your God.

About contradictions, here's the link I shared earlier : www.news24.com/MyNews24/The-Problem-of-the-Bible-Inaccuracies-contradictions-fallacies-scientific-issues-and-more-20120517

and some of the things it has:

Thunder is God's voice (Ps 77:18).

P. Earthquakes are caused by God's anger (Job 9:5, Ps 18:7, 77:18, 97:4, Isa 2:19, 24:20, 29:6, Jer 10:10, Ezek 38:20, Nah 1:5). Or by his voice (Heb 12:26). Or by Lucifer (Isa 14:16).

Q. Earthquakes can occur in heaven (Heb 12:26).

R. Rainwater does not return to the sky (Isa 55:10).

S. Blood is "life" (Deut 12:23). Breath is "life" (Gen 2:7).

T. Moon will turn to blood (Acts 2:20).

U. The moon has a light of its own (Isa 13:10, Matt 24:29).

V. The stars can be made to fall (Matt 24:29, Mark 13:25).

W. The bat is a bird (Lev 11:13,19, Deut 14:11, 18).

X. The whale is a fish (Jonah 1:17, Matt 12:40).

Y. Whales were created before insects (Gen 1:21-24).

Z. Jonah is able to survive three days and nights in the belly of the fish without oxygen and without being digested (Jonah1:17, 2:10).

A1. The hare chews the cud (Lev 11:5-6).

B1. Some fowl and insects have four legs (Lev 11:20-23).

C1. Levi existed as a person in the loins of his great-grandfather (Heb 7:9-10).

D1. Cattle will produce striped offspring if they see striped poles when breeding (Gen 30:37-41).

E1. Bees will build a hive in a dead carcass (Judg 14:8).

F1. Salt can lose its saltiness (Matt 5:13, Mark 9:50, Luke 14:34).

G1. Slugs / Snails melt as they move (Ps 58:8)

G2. Noah’s Flood

Also, one of my personal favorites is how to cure Leprosy with a blood ritual:

"14 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “These are the regulations for any diseased person at the time of their ceremonial cleansing, when they are brought to the priest: 3 The priest is to go outside the camp and examine them. If they have been healed of their defiling skin disease,[a] 4 the priest shall order that two live clean birds and some cedar wood, scarlet yarn and hyssop be brought for the person to be cleansed. 5 Then the priest shall order that one of the birds be killed over fresh water in a clay pot. 6 He is then to take the live bird and dip it, together with the cedar wood, the scarlet yarn and the hyssop, into the blood of the bird that was killed over the fresh water. 7 Seven times he shall sprinkle the one to be cleansed of the defiling disease, and then pronounce them clean. After that, he is to release the live bird in the open fields."

Makes me laugh every time. Supersticious humans writing down blood rituals, and thousands of years later when we know the cure for diseases, we think it's the word of God.

Finally here's a video about inherent contradictions within the Bible: www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk
Every time a contradiction is said, you see the number of the verse down below in case you want to look it up. Also it's 100% sarcasm so don't watch it if you're easily offended.

All in all, it truly amazes me that people still go around telling me these are the words of a perfect, divine unchanging being and not the words of fallible, selfish human beings seeking answers while looking out for their own personal gains at the same time. Even if all the examples you gave are all correct and righteous (I didn't go through all of them), that still wouldn't prove the bible as a whole to be reliable. While on the other hand, a few counter examples, would clearly show the opposite, since the claim is that it's the inerrant word of God. Let alone the overwhelming amount of evidence against it plus all the inherent contradictions it has. Reading the whole Bible, with no cherrypicking or biases, can create more atheists than reading atheist books can. If only people could do that...

@havfanridindis

1. The verses in context still show exactly what I said, so how was I cherrypicking? As I said, Israelites were to go free after seven years, and everyone else at set fifty-year intervals. It also shows that the penalty for murder was death, and that slaveowners could not kill slaves without being put to death themselves. These laws are, by the way, very similar to those seen in other ancient law codes such as the Law Codes of Ur-Nammu, Eshnunna, Hammurabi, and Lipet-Ishtar (2300-1600 B.C.), and provided protections against harming slaves that were thousands of years ahead of their time. Eye for an eye is an ancient concept seen in those law codes that dates back prior to 2000 B.C., for example.

2. You are the one cherrypicking now about punishment of slaves/indentured servants. The clear punishment for killing them was death, eye for an eye. (v. 12) If they killed others they were to be killed, and any permanent injury done to others done to them in return. (vv. 23-25) Any permanent injury, however minor, was to result in their freedom, with all debts they owed absolved. (vv. 26-27) America still has indentured servitude today where people spend their lives paying off homes, cars, or student loans, and corrupt bankers can raise the rates through Adjustable Rate Mortgages at the end of the loan to steal what was being paid for. Then there is the criminal justice system, which in Florida charges inmates $55,000 for the cost of being detained, and makes them work decades to pay off the cost of their confinement. Then there are judges which profit from sending the convicted to juvenile homes or halfway houses that give them kickbacks - see e.g. the 'Kids for Cash' Scandal. This idea that slavery and indentured servitude no longer exists in the U.S. is a myth. At least with the Bible, there were fifty-year intervals absolving the debt cycle, here in the U.S., we would do well to adopt such a model.

nypost.com/2014/02/23/film-details-teens-struggles-in-state-detention-in-payoff-scandal/

money.cnn.com/2015/09/18/news/economy/prison-fees-inmates-debt/index.html

www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/plea/interviews/bright.html

3. The Law was given to show that noone is innocent, and that all are guilty of death before God. Jesus pointed this out to the Pharisees when they wanted to stone an adulterous woman to death, saying that only those without sin could cast the first stone. The Law is a just sentence on evil deeds, but only those who are sinless can execute it; which is why it is written, "vengeance is mine, I will repay saith the Lord."

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Romans 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord

4. Exodus 23:19 says nothing about cheeseburgers. It was related to incest and dealt with killing a calf by boiling it in its mother's milk specifically, not having dairy products and meat products together. Also, I am not sure why you think commandments prohibiting incest, bestiality, and other sexually perverse lifestyles that cause sexually transmitted diseases and birth defects were wrong.

5. A prohibition on eating animal fat was a sensible dietary law to prevent intake of saturated fat that can cause high cholesterol and heart disease. I'm not sure why you think this was a bad commandment.

6. Similarly with drinking the blood of animals. There are serious health risks, so this too was a commonsense commandment designed to protect Israelites. So I'm not sure why you think this was a bad commandment either. Actually you're just continuing to prove my point that the Bible's commandments were millennia ahead of their time as a practical health code.

"The strange fact is, blood, when drank, is toxic. When confined to places where blood is supposed to be — such as the heart, vessels, and so on — it is essential for life. But when ingested it's a very different story. Of course all toxins have doses, and just as a tiny bit of poison won't necessarily harm you, the more you eat or drink, the greater the danger. Because blood is so rich in iron — and because the body has difficulty excreting excess iron — any animal that consumes blood regularly runs a risk of iron overdose. While iron is necessary for all animals (and indeed most life), in high doses it can be toxic. This condition, called haemochromatosis, can cause a wide variety of diseases and problems, including liver damage, buildup of fluid in the lungs, dehydration, low blood pressure, and nervous disorders."

www.livescience.com/15899-drinking-blood-safe.html

7. A prohibition on eating pork made considerable dietary sense in the ancient world. There is a serious health risk from eating raw or undercooked pork called trichinosis that used to be very common. With advances of dietary and healthcare technology, this commandment is no longer needed, which is why such dietary healthcare restrictions were generally done away with in the New Testament (with the exceptions in Acts 15:29).

@Jzyehoshua Enough with your faery tales. Show me your god. Put up or shut up.

@Jzyehoshua

"The verses in context still show exactly what I said"

Did you even read 1/10 of what I sent or just quickly scrolled through them in a few seconds cause you're too busy praising God? I sent exact verses saying very specific things, not open to your sauitable interpretations. I'm not going to repeat everything just because you didn't read them or chose to ignore them. Here's just one of many, many examples I gave:

"20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property."

Which part confuses you exactly? Your Bible says you can beat your slave as long as he/she
recovers after a day or two. Doesn't matter if you choose to ignore it and still claim that the verses show exactly what you said, and it's not open to your interpretation either. It's clear and straightforward. As are the blood rituals for diseases and many other false things in the Bible.

Also, you accused me of cherry picking when I actually told you I would cherry pick too so you can see the contrast. I said "Allow me to return the favor" in my previous post. You'd know it if you had read anything of what I said. But you're not interested in that. You're only interested in presenting your own verses, which happen to work well with what you claim of the Bible. Guess what? I've already accepted that some things in there are correct and true, you're the one failing to acknowledge the wrong things in it cause it'd be too hard to admit.

So let me ask you in a straightforward manner and soon be done with all this, cause you'll just keep evading and avoiding forever. Do you deny that there are some things in the Bible which are incorrect and/or contradict each other? It's a yes or no question so don't try using fancy quotes to avoid answering.

he's gonna try and use fancy quotes to avoid answering.

@SpyroSE One can only hope