You are making a mountain out of a molehill my friend. It won't be as hard and chaotic as you picture it.
- Are we to vote on what new bell or whistle is to be voted on?
You post your idea, people vote it or not. Same way Frequent questions works: lichess.org/qa
- Will every member get a notification?
The same way Frequent Questions works.
- Will developers inform us ahead of time of the man hours involved?
What for? They don't do that for the other features they add, do they?
-The necessity to eliminate other features to make room for the new one?
In what world would you delete a feature to add another, and why. Would they remove Atomic chess to add Crazyhouse? If by that you mean stop doing something else to add a new feature, well the new feature can wait, no need to rush.
-How long will the polls be open for?
Forever. Just like QA section works. Why would you close them? It could be marked as "implemented" or whatever, but no need to close them.
-Will ballots be provided in every language?
English makes sense. If you post in another language, you reach fewer people and receive fewer votes. You can do it, but it's a bad strategy so no one would do it.
-There are teams with a lot of members who are here for the chat and social interaction. They rarely play chess. Can every member vote?
You don't know the numbers. There are thousands of players on this site, you don't actually know how many of them don't care about chess to generalize with such confidence. Show me real numbers in percentages and we can discuss that to see if that's a relevant issue.
-Delete cookies and cache and multi-votes may be possible. Who will verify results?
One vote per account, cookies have nothing to do here. If someone wants to go and create 20 email accounts to create 20 accounts here he/she could be my guest, takes a lot of time and it's worthless.
No offense, but you really are making a mountain out of a molehill.
You post your idea, people vote it or not. Same way Frequent questions works: lichess.org/qa
- Will every member get a notification?
The same way Frequent Questions works.
- Will developers inform us ahead of time of the man hours involved?
What for? They don't do that for the other features they add, do they?
-The necessity to eliminate other features to make room for the new one?
In what world would you delete a feature to add another, and why. Would they remove Atomic chess to add Crazyhouse? If by that you mean stop doing something else to add a new feature, well the new feature can wait, no need to rush.
-How long will the polls be open for?
Forever. Just like QA section works. Why would you close them? It could be marked as "implemented" or whatever, but no need to close them.
-Will ballots be provided in every language?
English makes sense. If you post in another language, you reach fewer people and receive fewer votes. You can do it, but it's a bad strategy so no one would do it.
-There are teams with a lot of members who are here for the chat and social interaction. They rarely play chess. Can every member vote?
You don't know the numbers. There are thousands of players on this site, you don't actually know how many of them don't care about chess to generalize with such confidence. Show me real numbers in percentages and we can discuss that to see if that's a relevant issue.
-Delete cookies and cache and multi-votes may be possible. Who will verify results?
One vote per account, cookies have nothing to do here. If someone wants to go and create 20 email accounts to create 20 accounts here he/she could be my guest, takes a lot of time and it's worthless.
No offense, but you really are making a mountain out of a molehill.
No offense, but you really know zilch about programming. Adding a feature often requires making untold changes elsewhere.
What validity is there by having people vote on a suggestion when it is posted ??? Absolutely NONE.
Straw polls are tracked by cookies. Deleting cache and sites generally untrack much of your activity. For lichess to record voting in polls , again, would require more programming and maintenance. People are conducting "polls" all the time in threads, asking people to vote only once. It is useless as people know by deleting cookies it is very likely they can vote again undetected.
Point is, a suggestion is made. 10 people vote in an hour. That result is absolutely meaningless to anyone. How long would you suggest leaving the polls open ? An hour/day/ week ? It is so simple to stuff the ballot box. Get a few friends together. Then when it "wins" start demanding changes be made. Insanity.
What validity is there by having people vote on a suggestion when it is posted ??? Absolutely NONE.
Straw polls are tracked by cookies. Deleting cache and sites generally untrack much of your activity. For lichess to record voting in polls , again, would require more programming and maintenance. People are conducting "polls" all the time in threads, asking people to vote only once. It is useless as people know by deleting cookies it is very likely they can vote again undetected.
Point is, a suggestion is made. 10 people vote in an hour. That result is absolutely meaningless to anyone. How long would you suggest leaving the polls open ? An hour/day/ week ? It is so simple to stuff the ballot box. Get a few friends together. Then when it "wins" start demanding changes be made. Insanity.
It is a "mountain" .... not a mole hill. There are so many pitfalls, obstacles, issues of fairness that make anyone's head swim.
What suggestions get voted on ? Members know that if "voting" will occur, they will be flooding the forum with their pet "feature" to add. Vote on one, have to vote on them all. Certainly, in fairness to all, lichess will have to send a notification to everyone, logged in or not that voting will be commencing.
OK... ya got me. "Voting" is a Trolling thread.
What suggestions get voted on ? Members know that if "voting" will occur, they will be flooding the forum with their pet "feature" to add. Vote on one, have to vote on them all. Certainly, in fairness to all, lichess will have to send a notification to everyone, logged in or not that voting will be commencing.
OK... ya got me. "Voting" is a Trolling thread.
Senior developer, 7 years experience. Or SemiSr depending on the scale you prefer.
Not reading all of this, you always seem to fight and make generalizations as if things where absolute facts. You seem angry in almost half of the posts I read from you.
As for the expression, English is not my main language so I try my best to translate the expressions of my native language and sometimes I fail.
Kind regards.
Not reading all of this, you always seem to fight and make generalizations as if things where absolute facts. You seem angry in almost half of the posts I read from you.
As for the expression, English is not my main language so I try my best to translate the expressions of my native language and sometimes I fail.
Kind regards.
@AstralKnight #1
It is geat idea!
It is geat idea!
@mdinnerspace The voting system would not have to pass the same rigorous requirements as one for democratically electing a government. It does not have to be 100% fair (however you define it). At the end of the day the developers will obviously still have a final say on what they want to (and what they can) implement. It is not going to be a fair democracy no matter what.
It simply has to be a better way of organizing and gauging interest in suggestions than this forum where getting an overview over suggestions and how wanted they are is almost impossible.
It simply has to be a better way of organizing and gauging interest in suggestions than this forum where getting an overview over suggestions and how wanted they are is almost impossible.
Bring on the VOTE.
But nobody has proposed any solutions to the questions I raise.
By example:
1. Are we to vote on every suggestion proposed?
Highly impracticable. Then how will it be decided which ones to vote on? Another vote?
2. To be fair, every member must be allowed the opportunity to vote and be notified of an impending vote that will possibly alter their lichess experience. How to conduct such an undertaking?
I think those in charge of monitoring the feedback are fully capable of "making a tally" of the negative/positive responses without some poll that can be easily "stuffed" by 1 side or the other.
In general, People want more and more bells and whistles. The more the merrier. Just about every suggestion will be "voted" in. Why not? If some people want it, add it is the prevailing attitude.
Most suggestions will "win" any vote by a simple majority. Most all suggestions will not be seen in the immediate future, resulting in quite a few members becoming "upset". After all, they voted on a measure and can point to lichess as ignoring their wishes. It is very easy to say "let's vote". Very few take the time to anticipate the pitfalls that will surely happen.
One suggestion that I have seen (that I highly favor) is correspondence tournaments. This suggestion is made on a regular basis. Those that play correspondence would vote for it, others probably would even though they would not participate. Lichess is surely aware of the sentiment, has responded with sometime in the future it is going to happen. In the mean time, the % of correspondence players remains low in comparison, not a big % of members would play but would vote for the added feature. Will a vote in a forum seen by < 1% of the members ever change anything?
But nobody has proposed any solutions to the questions I raise.
By example:
1. Are we to vote on every suggestion proposed?
Highly impracticable. Then how will it be decided which ones to vote on? Another vote?
2. To be fair, every member must be allowed the opportunity to vote and be notified of an impending vote that will possibly alter their lichess experience. How to conduct such an undertaking?
I think those in charge of monitoring the feedback are fully capable of "making a tally" of the negative/positive responses without some poll that can be easily "stuffed" by 1 side or the other.
In general, People want more and more bells and whistles. The more the merrier. Just about every suggestion will be "voted" in. Why not? If some people want it, add it is the prevailing attitude.
Most suggestions will "win" any vote by a simple majority. Most all suggestions will not be seen in the immediate future, resulting in quite a few members becoming "upset". After all, they voted on a measure and can point to lichess as ignoring their wishes. It is very easy to say "let's vote". Very few take the time to anticipate the pitfalls that will surely happen.
One suggestion that I have seen (that I highly favor) is correspondence tournaments. This suggestion is made on a regular basis. Those that play correspondence would vote for it, others probably would even though they would not participate. Lichess is surely aware of the sentiment, has responded with sometime in the future it is going to happen. In the mean time, the % of correspondence players remains low in comparison, not a big % of members would play but would vote for the added feature. Will a vote in a forum seen by < 1% of the members ever change anything?
@vwhite
I fully agree with you. There surely is a better way to for members to make suggestions and get their ideas across to lichess. There are a few things that I may suggest lichess has gotten wrong and needs an upgrade. One is the Questions and Answers. A disaster imo. I gave up on making any attempt to ask or find any answer there long ago. The forum "Lichess feedback" could be formatted to provide a better user experience. As it stands, it's often just chaos, no rhyme or reason, just back and forth banter with little response seen from lichess.
I've come down on this "voting" thing. It is not the direction to take. A better direction exists than the current one I wholeheartedly concur.
I fully agree with you. There surely is a better way to for members to make suggestions and get their ideas across to lichess. There are a few things that I may suggest lichess has gotten wrong and needs an upgrade. One is the Questions and Answers. A disaster imo. I gave up on making any attempt to ask or find any answer there long ago. The forum "Lichess feedback" could be formatted to provide a better user experience. As it stands, it's often just chaos, no rhyme or reason, just back and forth banter with little response seen from lichess.
I've come down on this "voting" thing. It is not the direction to take. A better direction exists than the current one I wholeheartedly concur.
-Delete cookies and cache and multi-votes may be possible. Who will verify results?
Man, how do votes for puzzles' popularity and FAQ's answers work ?
Man, how do votes for puzzles' popularity and FAQ's answers work ?
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