lichess.org

no round robin tournaments on lichess

@Toadofsky I certainly don't ask you to do anything! Except perhaps to reconsider Lichess' decision regarding the RRs! The only thing I do is ask questions and doubt your arguments, nothing more!

@tpr
"2) I can see a chess club of say 10 members wants to organise a 9 round round robin online as they cannot meet over the board. It is easy to do: just mail the pairings to the players and let white challenge black."

The members of a club who have founded a team on Lichess are mostly elderly people and children. These are usually overwhelmed when it is done as you suggest. You just can't do it that way, it's going to create a mess. Many of them don't get along with the computer and the way one deal with it. This was one of the problems, among other things, of why many people called for the Swiss system.

This may be easy for you, but it is not the case for many or others! And besides, your proposal is completely cumbersome! That is why they cannot cope. Especially older people and children who have little experience with computers and online stuff.

"2) I can see a chess club of say 10 members wants to organise a 9 round round robin online as they cannot meet over the board. It is easy to do: just mail the pairings to the players and let white challenge black."

If you have a Team and you are the Team leader of your Team, then I suggest that you try such a Tournament yourself. Let's see how it works!
@tpr

I would love to have this ability to create a Round Robin tournament.

Just to mention: even double Round Robin would be great for my team :)

It would be great if we could create a tournament and play it for a longer period of time, e.g. every round on a different day or every round on Mondays.

And it would be great if we could create thematic tournaments in both Swiss and RR systems.

And thanks for creating Swiss tournaments!! I couldn't find this possibility anywhere (I think only on ChessBase there is this feature). This will save my time creating a Swiss Tournament for members of my Club elsewhere.

#74 To be clear, scheduled rounds aren't planned either (they're too complex, believe it or not):
github.com/ornicar/lila/issues/6584

#71 I originally argued in favor of Round Robin and it took strong, clear arguments for me to understand that they're not a great fit for Lichess because they don't scale well without a reputation/paywall system. I'm mainly using an argumentative tone here because of #49... public communications (communicating with many players at once) are challenging. Round Robin differs from other tournament formats in that it lacks mechanisms to prevent long delays when even a single opponent withdraws, which causes a cascading failure. Testing that the software will scale well and failures will not overwhelm Lichess staff - i.e. that software can solve social problems without doubling moderator effort - is not feasible.
lichess.org/forum/lichess-feedback/no-round-robin-tournaments-on-lichess?page=5#49

There are other, far more feasible things I'd like to see done, for example correspondence with increment (or vacation or something to enable faster TCs without risking timeouts). A team could agree to manually play correspondence among themselves at the same TC and pretend they were doing a "round robin" and not even have to worry about round scheduling (although reporting results could be tricky, but winners care about reporting their results to the team so that too should scale well):
github.com/ornicar/lila/issues/4462

Greetings, @tpr!

I remember when you participated in the topic:

lichess.org/forum/lichess-feedback/the-introduction-of-swiss-and-round-robin-for-tournaments-on-lichess

I remember clearly that you were opposed to Swiss tournaments and always repeated the same arguments against them. These arguments were always based on these two ideas:

1 - Swiss tournaments are not going to work in Lichess.
2- If you want Swiss tournaments, do it yourself outside Lichess.

When I read your comments in the present topic, I realize that you intend to repeat the same formula here.

In comment #69, you say:

"Lichess is free, but nevertheless people seem entitled to impose their demands on the volunteers. Lichess has reluctantly given in to the demand for swiss "because the mob riots the forums" but this precedent is no valid argument to do the same for round robin."

Question: If you consider the people who promoted Swiss tournaments to be "the mob", why do you join them?

Looking at your profile, I noticed that you are a member of several teams that specialize in organizing these kinds of tournaments:

lichess.org/team/3oCF7QbR
lichess.org/team/lichess-world-championship
lichess.org/team/swish-tournaments
lichess.org/team/world-chess-club-for-everyone
lichess.org/team/swiss-tournament-team

You are member of 7 teams: 5 of these teams use the Swiss system and 1 team uses the Round Robin system.(lichess.org/team/correspondence-league)

I don't understand! Why do you oppose what you love?

Do you first assume an antagonistic position and then take advantage of that which you opposed? Do you intend to continue with the same negative attitude here?

https://imgur.com/wsCKyQj

Source: @tpr

#76 Regarding:
"Lichess is free, but nevertheless people seem entitled to impose their demands on the volunteers. Lichess has reluctantly given in to the demand for swiss "because the mob riots the forums" but this precedent is no valid argument to do the same for round robin."

... I recall a proverb:
知可战与不可战者胜。 (He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot will be victorious.) - Sun Tzu

The "battle" against the "mob" was a lost cause; Swiss is extraordinarily popular and the feature, while difficult, was feasible. Round Robin is in another category altogether and even supposing it *were* popular that wouldn't change Lichess' stance... I don't see a need to antagonize tpr over his argument even if it's not airtight.

Greetings @Ugalde

"The mob rioting the forum" was a direct quote from Thibault, hence between quotation marks.

From my positive attitude I tried to see for myself how the implementedf swiss works online. The only way to do that is join teams. I played a grand total of 1 swiss tournament where I played 1 game as the beta system crashed because of withdrawals. I hope to play another online swiss to sse how it works especially with waiting times.

I have thought a litle more about the withdrawal problem. When people gather over the board e.g. Friday night from 19:00 to 23:00, then they do so with the sole purpose of playing chess. If they withdraw after a few consecutive losses, they get socially punished, may no longer play in tournaments etc. Online a player can withdraw with impunity. Online there are also distractions (wife, kids, pareents, phone, doorbell...) that cause a pause.

Greetings, @tpr!

Thank you for answering my questions in item #76 (even though you were under no obligation to do so!)

I hope you didn't consider it as a kind of attack.

It made me curious. I am disconcerted by your pessimistic attitude: it does not seem to be in accordance with the character you have shown in the Lichess community.

After all, you are a very active member who has made a lot of contributions (analyses, studies, news, advice...). You dedicate a large part of your time to help other Lichess users. I suspect you are more of a "collaborator guy " than a "contender guy ".

That's why I find it strange that you assume the role of "Devil's advocate".

Reconnecting