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Game against cheaters

Hello,

When you lose against someone who is cheating, the points are not fully refund
i don't understant why

i lose against a cheater here :

https://lichess.org/IHdAU2Fx

i lost 6 points, but i was refund only 1 point...

this is awkward,

Thanks for your response,
Thomas

Hello, When you lose against someone who is cheating, the points are not fully refund i don't understant why i lose against a cheater here : https://lichess.org/IHdAU2Fx i lost 6 points, but i was refund only 1 point... this is awkward, Thanks for your response, Thomas

Hello Thomas,
the player was not marked right after your game - and you have played games after that loss where you managed to recover your rating.
Please read: https://lichess.org/faq#rating-refund
Sorry that you have experienced this.

Hello Thomas, the player was not marked right after your game - and you have played games after that loss where you managed to recover your rating. Please read: https://lichess.org/faq#rating-refund Sorry that you have experienced this.

ok thanks
i discover this rules.

maybe it is more logical to fully refund points, no ?
Lichess sould think about that

ok thanks i discover this rules. maybe it is more logical to fully refund points, no ? Lichess sould think about that

@th2j said in #3:

maybe it is more logical to fully refund points, no ?
Lichess sould think about that
Lichess refunds you points based on the terms stated in the FAQ. You will not recieve a full refund, as stated above, for 2 reasons:

  1. You, the player, we're able to recover your rating from the game you lost against the cheater
  2. You, the player, we're not facing a MARKED cheater at the time of play. This resulted in a partial refund, as stated in the Rating Refund FAQ.
@th2j said in #3: > maybe it is more logical to fully refund points, no ? > Lichess sould think about that Lichess refunds you points based on the terms stated in the FAQ. You will not recieve a full refund, as stated above, for 2 reasons: 1. You, the player, we're able to recover your rating from the game you lost against the cheater 2. You, the player, we're not facing a MARKED cheater at the time of play. This resulted in a partial refund, as stated in the Rating Refund FAQ.

maybe it is more logical to fully refund points, no ?
Lichess sould think about that

Clear "NO".
If we would "over-refund" you, we will just inflate your ratings.
Imagine you are losing to 3 cheaters during a long playing day, while fully recovering your points.
Then, you find yourself having a "non-earned" peak rating in a certain category just because we added points to your rating.
That peak will be an unreachable high, you will never be able to get there, it might hurt.
Another thing is that the rating you have is just a tool that is used to be paired with the opponents of similar skill level.
Believe me, if you magically get 100 points of the rating over night, all you have in return is pretty frustrating playing experience since players in higher rating range will just beat you down next day.
Are you still sure that you want that?
This is just a simple example why refunding over the rating you had before the game is simply wrong.

> maybe it is more logical to fully refund points, no ? > Lichess sould think about that Clear "NO". If we would "over-refund" you, we will just inflate your ratings. Imagine you are losing to 3 cheaters during a long playing day, while fully recovering your points. Then, you find yourself having a "non-earned" peak rating in a certain category just because we added points to your rating. That peak will be an unreachable high, you will never be able to get there, it might hurt. Another thing is that the rating you have is just a tool that is used to be paired with the opponents of similar skill level. Believe me, if you magically get 100 points of the rating over night, all you have in return is pretty frustrating playing experience since players in higher rating range will just beat you down next day. Are you still sure that you want that? This is just a simple example why refunding over the rating you had before the game is simply wrong.

no this is not logical

sorry i don't understand your arguments

if you played someone who cheats, it is logical to cancel the game, so the result should be no points loss...
as if the game has not existed. i am not asking to have a win, just a cancel of the game

no this is not logical sorry i don't understand your arguments if you played someone who cheats, it is logical to cancel the game, so the result should be no points loss... as if the game has not existed. i am not asking to have a win, just a cancel of the game

@th2j said in #6:

no this is not logical

if you played someone who cheats, it is logical to cancel the game, so the result should be no points loss...
as if the game has not existed. i am not asking to have a win, just a cancel of the game
You we're refunded a point. Now, your asking for that to go away? Also, how is making sure your rating isn't inflated unlogical?

@th2j said in #6: > no this is not logical > if you played someone who cheats, it is logical to cancel the game, so the result should be no points loss... > as if the game has not existed. i am not asking to have a win, just a cancel of the game You we're refunded a point. Now, your asking for that to go away? Also, how is making sure your rating isn't inflated unlogical?

@th2j said in #6:

no this is not logical

sorry i don't understand your arguments

if you played someone who cheats, it is logical to cancel the game, so the result should be no points loss...
as if the game has not existed. i am not asking to have a win, just a cancel of the game

The refund you get is normally the amount that will return your rating to what it would be if the game against the cheater never existed. It is effectively what you're asking Lichess to do!
Just to reiterate the point, it's not as simple as looking back at how many rating points you lost 10 games ago and adding it to your current rating. That's because when your rating goes down, you get more points for winning games after that point, and you lose less points for games you lose! So if you played 10 games since playing the cheater, that means your rating will have mainly adjusted itself to your real strength again anyway.

@th2j said in #6: > no this is not logical > > sorry i don't understand your arguments > > if you played someone who cheats, it is logical to cancel the game, so the result should be no points loss... > as if the game has not existed. i am not asking to have a win, just a cancel of the game The refund you get is normally the amount that will return your rating to what it would be if the game against the cheater never existed. It is effectively what you're asking Lichess to do! Just to reiterate the point, it's not as simple as looking back at how many rating points you lost 10 games ago and adding it to your current rating. That's because when your rating goes down, you get more points for winning games after that point, and you lose less points for games you lose! So if you played 10 games since playing the cheater, that means your rating will have mainly adjusted itself to your real strength again anyway.

i listen to your arguments and i am still not convinced
it is not logical to me
i would like that the rule evolves

but the majority seems to accept this rule, so am i

i listen to your arguments and i am still not convinced it is not logical to me i would like that the rule evolves but the majority seems to accept this rule, so am i

@th2j

Imagine your play a year of chess and in this year you play vs 100 cheaters which cost you 5 elo each.
Since you are rated 2000, your rating will naturally go back to 2000 even if you lose some games (because you clap those 1800s). Now imagine, all of the cheaters get banned at once and suddenly you gain 5 elo from each one => 5 * 100 = 500

Suddenly you are a 2500 player. Is that fair or logical to you?

@th2j Imagine your play a year of chess and in this year you play vs 100 cheaters which cost you 5 elo each. Since you are rated 2000, your rating will naturally go back to 2000 even if you lose some games (because you clap those 1800s). Now imagine, all of the cheaters get banned at once and suddenly you gain 5 elo from each one => 5 * 100 = 500 Suddenly you are a 2500 player. Is that fair or logical to you?

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