Hans Niemann was caught cheating 3 years ago. And in only 1 year and 8 months he went from 2484 a 2700. How long other Super GMS took to make the same progress?
1. Alireza Firouzja: 2 years and 4 months
2. Anish Giri: 2 and 1/2 years
3. Magnus Carlsen: 3 and 1/2 years
4. Ding Liren: 3 and 1/2 years
5. Gukesh: 3 and 1/2 years
6. Fabiano Caruana: 4 years
7. Jan Duda: 4 years
8. Vincent Keymer: 4 years
9. Hikaru Nakamura: 5 and 1/2 years
10. Abdusattorov: 5 and 1/2 years
11. Ian Nepomniachtchi: 6 years
12. Daniil Dubov: 7 years
13. Vidit Gujrathi: 7 years
You might say that he cheated online and that its impossible to cheat OTB. Thats BS in my opinion. If you have enough money you can buy inside help in any tournament. Is this a proof he is cheating? No. But the fact he once cheated, has surpassed several Super GMs in such short time and fails to analyse and explain the reasons behind his own moves is enough to me to think that his progress is not natural.
I really don't like cheats, even the kids in school that used to take caffeine and ginseng tablets during exams riled me.
And I don't think anyone is claiming to know whether or not he is cheating. Other than him of course, so if he fails over the course of the next 50 games to maintain his performance, it would take care of itself and players would earn their points back.
Those that are claiming he is cheating, without evidence, are actually committing not just what has been considered the worst type of lie (even looking all the way back into the history of humanity), but actually a criminal act. Chess players with a career in law have voiced how Hans would have a simple win in court on this matter.
It would be easy and respectful to everyone concerned, to wait for evidence before making claims, as he is playing 200+ games per year over the board. A decent amount of attention, or even special investigators (there are people who are trained specifically to find cutting edge communication devices) would almost certainly find incriminating evidence.
The problem with what is happening is that the powerful entities in the chess community are appearing to act in a co-ordinated way to smear him, in order that they can pose as the arbiters of chess morality. If they had decent evidence of over the board cheating, there would be less controversy for them to take advantage of, or worse still, they may find he's not cheating at all.
If you are making such a list, you should also make a list of how many games were played to reach that level. Hans played an enormous amount of games in that 1 year and 8 months, like 360
So you can't conclude anything really with time only.
And from chessbase:
"For many outsiders, the name did not even ring a bell before all the ruckus, and understandably so. While prodigies such as Hikaru Nakamura, Sam Sevian and others, rose the rungs over a period of many years, giving fans plenty of time to acquaint themselves with their names, 19-year-old Hans Niemann's rise was nothing short of meteoric.
Consider his ratings according to the FIDE lists:
September 2020 - 2465 FIDE
September 2021 - 2609 FIDE
September 2022 - 2688 FIDE
Extraordinary and completely unprecedented! Almost unprecedented. Though not exactly on the same level, one current player, playing in the Sinquefield Cup no less, experienced a similar late bloom blast off in his rating: Levon Aronian. The great Armenian player, who peaked at 2835 FIDE, was actually an unimpressive 2581 FIDE just days before his 21st birthday, and not in the Top 100 players at all, yet would be world No. 3 at 2756 FIDE just three and a half years later.
With an elevated rating to start with, for ratings purposes, a lot of games would need to be played to raise it so much, and needless to say Hans Niemann was not idle. In those two years, he played roughly 360 rated classical games, or a game every other day on average, and this does not include rapid events or other! It is no exaggeration to say he was eating and breathing chess. "
@ninehundredsixty said in #3:
> If you are making such a list, you should also make a list of how many games were played to reach that level. Hans played an enormous amount of games in that 1 year and 8 months, like 360 . . .
Furthermore, it should be noted that before this period there were no OTB tournaments for an extended time thanks to Covid. He quite reasonably could have been improving during that time as well. However, in terms of rating it would only show up later. So you'd have more improvement *appearing* to have occurred during the following period making the rise in rating artificially fast in regards to his actual skill level change.
@Nomoreusernames said in #2:
> The problem with what is happening is that the powerful entities in the chess community are appearing to act in a co-ordinated way to smear him, in order that they can pose as the arbiters of chess morality. If they had decent evidence of over the board cheating, there would be less controversy for them to take advantage of, or worse still, they may find he's not cheating at all.
Totally agree, the thing that scares me, so far, is the conduct of chess.com who have given the distinct impression they see themselves as policemen for the WHOLE chess community. I also won't want law enforcement to adopt the methods of Carlsen/chess.com which basically shift the burden of proof of innocence over to the accused then coyly accept no responsibilities for any consequences.
Ironically, when top players are salty over a loss and they make a false accusation, even by implication, against their opponent, to harm them psychologically, that itself is cheating via poor sportsmanship. Carlsen should be given a 6 month ban.
Carlsen should have quietly reported his suspicions to the tournament authorities. Then the business of deciding between legitimate and dishonest play could be decided objectively and without so much fuss.
@AlexiHarvey said in #5:
> Totally agree, the thing that scares me, so far, is the conduct of chess.com who have given the distinct impression they see themselves as policemen for the WHOLE chess community. I also won't want law enforcement to adopt the methods of Carlsen/chess.com which basically shift the burden of proof of innocence over to the accused then coyly accept no responsibilities for any consequences.
In this regard, chess.com has recently published the reason for why they (after the Magnus/Niemann incident) removed him from chess.com and their events. Here is the press release:
"We have shared detailed evidence with him concerning our decision, including information that contradicts his statements regarding the amount and seriousness of his cheating on Chess.com"
I don't know what to believe, just very curious about the whole saga.
How in the hell Hans cheating and still losing to Wesley So at the same time? Only Hikaru fans and Amouranth's believe this nonsense
How would he cheat in an OTB tournament where the entry is covered with iron detection places? And why do you bother yourself cheating if you have the necessary skills to beat a GM without external tools ? Cheating isn't worth the risk. What are you going to win after winning the tournament with illegal ways? Honor?
People in a community believe the majority because they think they're right, even Hikaru Nakamura and Magnus Carlsen are making direct accusations without any reasoning behind those. That's a shame strong GMs play a move on the board while thinking about the consequences, but aren't able to make acceptable accusation without thinking why Hans would bother himself to cheat, because everybody loves Magnus and are ready for everything for Magnus' cause?
Hans didn't cheat, until proven guilty of his mistake.
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