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  1. Forum
  2. General Chess Discussion
  3. Take back option.

@President_DonaldDuck

I think this is (or should be) common in OTB club play.

What does it prove? Apparently people in our clubs have the common sense to admit "game over" first before asking for playing out the game. Exactly my point.
Let me guess: Takebacks in non-sparring OTB games (leagues / open tournaments) where the asking side intends to keep the original game going (and thus not have it count as a loss) are not quite as common. Curious!

PS: Nice try to put the blame of a blame game on me. Very meta.

@ProfDrHack
And where do you think many of the players on Lichess come from? Many are also players in OTB clubs. So if if that same person who in an OTB club asks for a takeback on Lichess then does he not have common sense anymore? Or is it just common sense that a good game of chess shouldn't be spoiled for no reason.

Of course takebacks in rated OTB games are not as common because ratings in those cases actually mean something as opposed to internet chess. You can't compare the two.

PS My citing of the 'blame game' is appropriately and correctly directed to people on your side of this debate. Most of them for some reason seem to be stuck on this childish and petty point and can't see the bigger picture that ruining a good game because of a mouse slip hurts both parties. It's sad and surprising when you consider we are talking about chess players here, who I normally associate with a higher level of intelligence. But I guess calculation intelligence does not equate to emotional intelligence or maturity.

As I told you after a misclick everything is f... up. At least you can take it as man. Resign or play on!

Do you want to show a takebeggared game to anyone? It is worthless like containing illegal moves. I would rather wear sackcloth and ashes then to show it someone.

@President_DonaldDuck

Maybe internet rating does not actually mean something to YOU, but can you speak for everyone? Our monkey brains react to all kinds of gratifications, even if they don't actually mean anything (A whole branch of very very meaningless but yet addictive smartphone games relies on that fact).

PS: Calling the other side "petty" and "childish" or lacking intelligence/maturity sure is a good argument. Thumbs up. And when I read the next sentence I really have to question whether you actually read what I write. I am with you when you say that a good game is often worth exploring further. But that is not my point. Maybe I should repeat it for you:

"Takebeggars" don't care for their good game - if they did, they'd ask to play it out after their resignation. They don't do that. They go to these forums and they cry that their opponent was morally obliged to allow the takeback and thus give them another fifty-fifty chance to win the game and thus win points, not lose. These threads take more effort than to ask the opponent for a rematch from the pre-mouseslip position. Thus their effort is not directed at continuing the good game. That is not their main motivation. It's just anger from losing points.

PPS: I do make a distinction between these "takebeggars" who cry in public, and people who just silently and gracefully accept that their opponent does not grant the takeback (asking for one is a feature, it's not immoral to ask - just to not accept "no" as an answer!) and carry on with their life. I have no problem with the latter at all (and I do occasionally grant takebacks).

@Sarg0n
The answer to that is simple. If the game is noteworthy enough to show others then you make it very clear to everyone that the other guy won because you made a blunder and you were just playing it out to see what would have happened.
If you have enough maturity and you are a true fan of the game of chess enough to analysis and discuss games that you lost, then why would it matter if you lost at the end or you lost in the middle with a mouse slip? Or are you too hung up on ego to even discuss a game that you lost?

@ProfDrHack
Your point about addictive and meaningless gratifications is well appreciated. And I think we can both agree that the susceptibility of or 'monkey brains' to this type of manipulation is a factor that's causing much harm in our society today. So recognizing this, why would you want to configure your options in a way that is leads you more towards that type of behavior? And honestly how do so many people in this thread actually have the nerve to try to take the moral high ground and criticize those that want to rise above it? This whole thread is so backwards it's giving me cancer.

I think I've explained at length why some of the attitudes expressed here are petty and childish. But you have to understand that my point in doing so is not to attack those people but to make them realize it for themselves so that they can change their outlook and have a different approach. If I can do that for even one person then I'd say it's been worth the effort.

I understood everything you wrote, but your third paragraph makes me have to wonder if you understand anything about what I wrote. I never for a second here asserted the claim that granting takebacks is a moral obligation. In fact I specifically disvowed such reasoning in a previous post. So I don't know why you mentioned people that "go to these forums and they cry that their opponent was morally obliged to allow the takeback".

From reading your last paragraph though I think our positions are not so far apart. The only place that I can see that we really differ is that for some reason you believe that if someone asks for a takeback on Lichess that ratings can be the only reason. Did you read the part where I talked about what I do when playing OTB? And most people I've played with seem to enjoy the exercise. So if so many people can have a curiosity to learn and see what would have happened with a game had it not been for a silly blunder in clubs then whyyyyy would could they not possibly have that same curiosity on Lichess? Are Lichess players from a different planet or something?

I give up.

I'm thrilled. This thread let me know I could eliminate the take back option, and I do now even in casual games. Sure, I needed a take back, and if it's on a mouse slip, i get it.....but when i play the computer and use take backs, to me, it's then a different game. much less risk. less stress. If you get used to take backs, then you aren't really as ready to play as you think. My thoughts. I'm sure this has saved me 20 take back situations where nobody says anything, since the option is eliminated. yes, i create all my games. in most sports, there really isn't a "take back" option. mulligan in golf with friends or something. chess is WAR....you make a mistake under pressure and there is no turning back!!!! LOL. if a GM asked me, "BisoMiso, i'll play you but we need the take back option." Well, odds are 0% but I guess I would allow it.

It comes down to a noob's quirk, not professional. That's why I'm out as well.

@Sarg0n
Being smart in chess does not make one smart in any other capacity.
And who's a noob? I've played 3.3k games and GLICKO2 RATING: 1813.71. Better than 89.6% of Rapid players.
I guess your opinion only matters if you have a rating of 2200.