Speed has replaced Quality (here on lichess in particular)

Of course if one has to be fast, he makes idiot premoves. In my trashy bullet games there must be a three digit number of losses after 1. d4 and 2.Bf4 to 2... or 3...exf4. I resigned intermediately in most of them. It's worthless to add these games into any database...

And that could be the case at mean 2000 or 2200 level as well, in bullet or 3+0 blitz. If people then play the same speed at longer time controls it gets horrible.

I agree with Sarg0n that otb blitz tournaments deliver better chess. The player pool is somewhat different and premove blunders doesn't exist. Players which are too slow for 5+0 otb blitz are often playing absolutely no online chess. They would be good for the rapid and standard time controls.

@Molurus . to respond to your post #98. I did not make a direct comment on the validity of your arguments. If I reread your post #95 you stated "Sargon's chess playing habits are simply irrelevant to what he's saying. Completely irrelevant.". I can confirm that this is a false statement. So you are both wrong.

I do not know the reasons why you agree with post #1; I can't see where you have made your case. In post #88 you were commenting on tournament set-ups, I believe the root of your argument stems with the 'berserk' feature - not something I have discussed.

Sarg0n's chess habits do matter for this topic as he made the topic personal when he said " I have noticed the following"(quote from post #1). Therefore, all of Sarg0ns' observations are dependent upon his personal observations. This is subjective. Thus if Sarg0n were to alter his chess habits he would also alter his perception of other players online. Namely, if he were to play similar rated players and use increments.

In post #100 you also said:

" "There is certainly some quality but it’s pretty hard to find."

This is true for the entire internet. Chess servers are no exception."

This is very wrong, I can click 3+2 and have a good *quality* game at any point of the day. Meaning, I can be well challenged by opponents. Perhaps I misunderstand what you mean by quality is hard to find?


"„lichess database. Millions of decided games before move 10, thousands of Scholar‘s Mates, billions of hanging pieces, Bongcloud Bull(sh)it."

Do you have a database of equivalent metrics for OTB blitz games? No you don't. So this is a hypothesis.

First time venturing on these lichess forums and this was the third post I read I think. it took a while and I read all of it, and I am a bit ashamed but he, I enjoyed it. You guys are the best, thank you. Happy new Year!

PS: @Sarg0n I agree with you on some points. My feeling from what little I have seen is that a decent player on lichess tends to have less chess culture from a decent player on some other sites . Lack of opening theory, aimless moving back and forth in the middlgame,tryharding some totally lost endgames( its a piece down buddy, I m gonna win it :) ) But this doesnt mean they are not strong, but maybe their strength is more speed or trick oriented. This does not correlate 100% with what quality is. A chess game is a battle and a battle can get dirty and ugly, but maybe it's higher quality than a "cleaner" game.

@SoWeakAtThis I am Impressed with your line of thought. you must be a clever little rat

If you are in a tournament playing with real chess pieces and your opponent blunders does that mean it was not a good chess game? If you only want “quality” according to Sargon than you better only play against a computer. If you want real chess play online or in person! Fast or slow is your choice. Remember chess is fun - Cheers and good luck!

@ the orignal topic,

is the goal in no increment chess to:
1. take your opponent out of his theory / prep
2. make fast moves that makes your opponent think and waste time

the goal is not to play top quality chess,
you play to win, not to gain the opponent respect or amusement


Anakin, you need to embrace a larger view of the no increment chess.

Intended to take my opponent out of book, I never have.

Strive to make the best moves, you must.

Making fast moves is just a part of blitz and bullet chess. As it is part of longer time control chess too. Just less so.

Sitting for three hours for one match versus testing your limitations and SKILLS in rapid, blitz, super blitz, bullet and hyperbullet?
Both have their place in chess! I prefer faster but I do not say that long form chess is worthless since you have all day to figure out the best move. Why do you dislike speed chess so much? In many sports speed is very important. Tiebreakers use shorter games to see who is the best! Cheers and full speed ahead!

#108, sure. Actually bullet comes down to mouse-skills. The best player in the world who needs 1-2s per move would lose every bullet game against a mediocre player who is really fast moving. Even if he is a fast thinker but a second/move execution often proves to slow (sic!).

So the execution of move within fractions of a second as wells as premoving poker is crucial and decisive, when you talk of speed it's mouse speed. No big deal, but don't mistake bullet prowess for chess wisdom.


LOL, you are trying to convince yourself too hard, the best player in the world doesn’t need 2 seconds per move. Magnus sucks at mouse skills and thus can’t play 15 seconds hyper bullet and certainly not 8 seconds. But he can play 30 and 45 seconds VS Tang just fine. So no, bullet doesn’t come down to mouse skills, it comes down to chess skills. Hyper bullet comes down to specific chess skills and more mouse experience (not skill), there is no such thing as mouse skill, it’s just experience of several days to learn to move the pieces faster.

If you play bullet for several days/weeks your rating will be exactly the same as your blitz.