Puzzles are misleading - trading pieces in endgame puzzles

Puzzles can teach bad habits.

If you have an endgame puzzle with pawns and one piece each, and you can trade pieces, the answer is usually to trade. If not, it often involves trading after a preparing move. If there is a tactical forced piece trade, that is almost always the answer. This holds true up to 2300 rated.

I haven't recorded data, but my feeling is these endgame puzzles involve trading pieces 80-90% of the time. In a real game, logically we can say that trading pieces doesn't always favor you, you need to calculate. If you are too used to puzzles, you may see a piece trade and play it even though it is losing or drawing.

@Alice_ex said in #1:
> Puzzles can teach bad habits.
>
> If you have an endgame puzzle with pawns and one piece each, and you can trade pieces, the answer is usually to trade. If not, it often involves trading after a preparing move. If there is a tactical forced piece trade, that is almost always the answer. This holds true up to 2300 rated.
>
> I haven't recorded data, but my feeling is these endgame puzzles involve trading pieces 80-90% of the time. In a real game, logically we can say that trading pieces doesn't always favor you, you need to calculate. If you are too used to puzzles, you may see a piece trade and play it even though it is losing or drawing.

I agree with you. I think this puzzle is an example of what you are talking about.
lichess.org/training/9jZDo

It is currently rated 1896. If I understand correctly, that means that a player with that rating has a 50% chance of solving the puzzle. To have a 92% chance of solving the puzzle correctly, you'd have to have a rating of at least 2296. That rating 1896 is almost 400 points higher than the average of 1500. That would correspond to an 8% chance of solving it for a 1500 rated player. Do I have that math wrong? I ask because I'm wondering what moves people are playing that get this puzzle wrong. I find it hard to believe that a 1500 rated player could not solve this puzzle. Maybe people play the puzzles really fast?

@Alice_ex The point is how far and how precise you can calculate in any given puzzle wether it's involving trade or not.Especially in the endgame you have to be very precise otherwise you lose

@jomega That's a great example.

Here is another example with a 2200 puzzle

lichess.org/training/KShFJ

You calculate a forced rook trade. Now you can play the trade without thinking too hard, and you will win most of the time.

I never heard of the phrase rook trade before, but it is a nice phrase. I forced the rook trade on the first try, but i didn't see the hanging pawn, threatening to make it's way down to promote. So, it took me two tries to solve the second move of the puzzle. It's nice ti know i did that good with a 2200 puzzle, being in the 1500's in rapid and classical on Lichess.org.

jomegas puzzle is an absolute joke obviously as all you have to know is the square rule. interestingly enough the puzzles rating is now above 1900 for whatever reason :D

i would agree that a ton of endgame puzzles start with piece trades, but then they are followed by really sharp "one of" pawn or king moves usually.

for me (15xx rapid player with ~2k puzzle rating) endgame puzzles - next to kingside attack and pins- are the hardest, even tho i regularly include endgames in a selection to target that weakness. im pretty sure i couldnt hold my puzzle rating if i did only endgame right now, it would probably take 20-30 puzzles until i could break even. theres just so many free squares in the endgame you have to really take your time and double check so many moves and squares, its easily one of the most mentally exhausting themes (and also least rewarding if you compare it to checkmates and captures that give you that sweet instant gratification instead showing you a measly passed pawn - i would expect this to become less of an issue the stronger you become tho, as then thats how you win most of your games).