@civil2000 said in #11:
> GUYS I HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING THIS IS CRAZY!! HATERS BANNED ME THAT'S ALL AND THIS IS UNFAIR
Get in touch with lichess and they will probably sort it out.
@Shadow1414 said in #40:
> 'My hero can't do wrong!' people never improve. Don't waste your time with them.
on Twitch they can hurt quite badly
here it's almost entertaining
btw, the hilarious all-cap shouts from civil2000 don't speak in his favour too
@TMuller said in #19:
> I don ́t know so I am asking, did you see the "?"?
By putting together the sentence like that, it becomes implied. Especially if u say he should go and study before talking
i dont think he cheated either cause he's a pretty honest dude, ive played 11 games with him and really all he did was help me. (maybe im thinking of somebody else but he wasnt toxic or rude at all)
<Comment deleted by user>
So @ civil2000 has been flagged as Violating the Terms of Service? Well, that is unfortunate. And either he did do something that made lichess ban him or he did not and was falsely flagged (which in rare instances might occur - algorithms aren't perfect), either way, there is no point in creating a thread to undermine the entire site, because for thousands of users it works perfectly fine. The only answers civil2000 needs, he will find through appealing, where he can ask the mods to look futher into his case and to give a reason for the ban - and maybe he will be found innocent for some reason or the other and everything will be alright. In case not, however, it is totally reasonable to not get a "precise" answer - that would just be giving away the whole point of the algorithm used for cheat-detection.
In #1, a premature reason was drawn: Discrimination. Don't get me wrong, discrimination is a serious problem and there of course always is a chance that people will be discriminated based on leaked and shared information, but I doubt it that a moderator would abuse their power to such an extent - it may be possible, but very unlikely I think. I for one can say, that my experience with moderators has been quite good - then again, I did not violate the ToS and never had to appeal. But that aside, I would still doubt that a mod would let their urge to discriminate get the better of them - afterall, if it would be revealed that they abused their power, they would no longer be in power. And the lichess staff as well as the picked moderators seem to hate discrimination, as evidenced by lichess's blog about FIDE's shady breast-enlargement sponsorship - oh, and FIDE's corrupt side in general.
That said, I still want to say seom things, @ TMuller: @ Cedur216's language might seem rough - and it is, but what he says is - as far as I am concerned - totally reasonable and correct: You (as well as I) might think that a certain individual - be it civil2000 or anyone else - is innocent, even if he's not - and there we are biased. Similarly, one could argue that the same applies for lichess's ban: That we perceive someone as guilty although only the algorithm changed the innocent into a "banned" user - though I am pretty convinced that in most cases it only happens in the first form. And insulting or pseudo-insulting here in the forums isn't nice (yet alone allowed), so just keep calm. This also holds true for other people - insulting someone as a "Querdenker", be it rightfully so or not, simply sparks up flames in a discussion that needs no heat. And, last but not least, if you want to leave this site now, ask yourself why you are on here in the first place - and if you realize it is not because of chess or your own enjoyment, then move on to another platform if you so choose - there are plenty of good chess sites and even more that range in the mediocre-to-bad spectrum, but there isn't another lichess, which is better than good - and for me, simply the best option out there.
Now, I also wanted to criticize lichess, because I think that this is the right thing to do: Many people now have complained, that lichess lacks some transparency - not in their formal things, the changelog still is there and you can find anything from A to Z if you look for it - but in the moderation policy (I am unsure on how to name this): There have been threads discussing this issue, and as far as I am aware the main problem lies in the lack of communication concerning the limitations: This goes without a saying, but it only regards the allowance concerning the username, concerning what and what can not be posted and what will and what won't be deleted with or without reason. Some people who were banned due to cheating expressed, that they were banned only due to a mishap of the algorithm (again, I doubt this in most cases, but wanted to mention it here). So, what would make all this better? Maybe a more fletched out rule-book or guideline, like an addition to the already existing forum-etiquette - and while I could see why many cheaters want (and should access) a fair "trial" like process, where the evidence is listed, I also understand the limitations on lichess's side: If they list the evidence, the algorithm could be figured out and thus be outplayed. But the point still stands: Many people are not as content with the transparency regarding these issues as they could be - I can only speak for myself when I say that I don't really take an issue with these things, but I can certainly see the point people are trying to make as well as the limited space lichess has to work with in these cases.
Lichess is great - no doubt about that. I play and post on this site of a reason, and just wanted to voice my Opinion. Also, I wanted to voice my opinion, regarding some "recent" posts where users complain about cheating on lichess: In my entire time playing on lichess, I have played against a cheater maybe 2 or 3 times - at most (only really remember getting a refund once, so that's probably only one cheater). I have played over three thousand games, most of them "slow" blitz (5+0) or "fast" rapid (10+0), probably the most popular time controls. So, just because you are thinking you played a cheater, it does not make a player a cheater: Just collect evidence based on games and behaviour and report - lichess is pretty good at checking your reports and the mods will act, if necessary. Just keep calm and don't start a new thread.
Coming back to the original topic (my post has gone somewhat off-topic), my final words regarding it is: Lichess is pretty good at spotting a cheater, though it is in the realms of possibility that someone innocent gets a ban - in that case, only appealing works, to either defend yourself and get somewhat of a reason behind the ban or to be absolutely sure that you have done something wrong in the past. I hope that these "uncertainties" surrounding @ civil2000 will be resolved soon, but only he has the right to his privacy and to his appeal - and as soon as he appeals, he will know for sure. Regardless, there's not much one can do otherwise. Nothing else can do, I suppose.
@TMuller said in #1:
> Hi, I just noticed that my friend civil2000 got banned without any reason just within 24 hours after reaching the first place in Racing Kings. He struggled a lot to get there and played many thousands of games. I have checked his latest games and none of them was even analyzed by an engine and he made a lot of real mistakes in all of them, confirming that he was playing as a human without using an engine. If he is too good to be here and/or you do not like him to be the leader on Lichess, please let us all know, so I abandon this place and play chess somewhere else. I would not support a chess site where players are getting discriminated because of their age, their skin color, their nationality, their religion or whatever characteristic that might be "unwanted" for the site administrator!
WHAT! Are you kidding!? they did! what did he do!? geeze.
this is why he got banned, but i dont think he cheated. :(
@ALucasM > this is why he got banned
pure speculation.
@Ifancy_potato > i dont think he cheated either cause he's a pretty honest dude, ive played 11 games with him and really all he did was help me. (maybe im thinking of somebody else but he wasnt toxic or rude at all)
means absolutely nothing.
I can only plea to everyone to drop any thoughts of "good people could never cheat".
@george_mcgeorge Lichess pleas guilty of being intransparent, there's no other way. Chesscom is equally intransparent for the exact same reason. It's not just "exposing the algorithm", in fact the AI is open-source like anything else and a database of games can be downloaded, so the technical side is 100% transparent. But a major reason of nontransparency in ban decisions and appeals is indeed unproductive debates.
> To explain this further: Say someone cheated in some games (even visibly for users), sends a denying appeal, and Lichess were obligated to give proof or at least show the games for which they issued the ban. They give some links, and then the appellant comes up with whatever excuses about these games (feigning how they found the moves etc). They blatantly refuse accepting the explanation and demand more proof. Like, where would this stop? This is what Lichess means by "unproductive debates".
I listen and participate in discussion about Lichess. I do not listen to conspiracy theories and rabble-rousing.
#44: Being honest & helpful can make someone think they've the right to cheat.
