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new cheaters

@ keruya

Thanks for your explanation. I am fully aware of this.

In those blitz (5 or 3) games it is normal that lower rated players take pieces thus reducing the possibility of being surprised by a surprise move. In longer games they have time enough to study and solve but in 1,3 or 5 min. games they have to rely on their instincts.

Only IM and GM fully understand the theory and score a high percentage. When a lower rated player scores outrages high percentages it becomes suspicious. If their answer is that they fully understand the theory their rating should be higher.

@sparowe14

Dude ... you gotta be kidding. Cheating is a MORAL OFFENSE. Complaining is NOT. Now, you might be irritated by complainers but I'm not because, to no one's surprise, a great many complaints are JUSTIFIED. However, even the one's that are not justified it's still not a moral offense.

We live in a goofy New Age era where whistleblowers and other kinds of complainers are viewed as the criminal rather than as the victim. Our culture is now a touchy-feely mess where debate is stifled because the person starting the debate is construed as being a "negative" person. I submit to you that for centuries if it wasn't for complainers (like EINSTEIN who was roundly rejected for a year after his theories) our civilization would have been held back by decades if not centuries.

However, even UNJUSTIFIED complaints are not a crime of conscience like cheating and who's to say whether it's justified or not? Complaints are, therefore, a subjective crime. I think the onus is on YOU to live with complaints. They're not THAT irksome unless you have a really thin skin.

I usually reserve my moral outrage for things like racism, genocide, war crimes, religious oppression, capitalist exploitation, female genital mutilation, bribery and corruption in office, imperialism, and so on. I don't have enough indignation left to apply it to a game which I can play or not play (even knowing that a few people may be cheating). I have played a few thousand games on lichess. In three of those games (grand total: three) I thought my opponent might be cheating. In two of those lichess detected the cheating and corrected the score.
The vast majority of people who complain about cheating in lichess are players who can't believe they lost, and are looking for an excuse. Sure, that's not a "MORAL OFFENSE." It's just a weakness of character. But I'm tired of listening to it.
If you have to capitalize moral offense in a discussion about a petty thing like a chess game, it suggests to me a narrow view of morality, rather than an expansive one. Maybe I'm wrong. How do you feel about the unnameable president firing the public servant who was investigating whether the cynical cruel vicious bloodthirsty secretary of state Pompeo was violating the rules of ethics? Now there's something that calls for some moral objection.

The story from the Old West is that someone called aside a poker player, and advised him, "These guys are cheating you."
The poker player said, "Yeah, I know, but it's the only game in town."

Of course it's wrong to cheat at chess. Of course those cheats should be detected and punished. But in the greater scheme of life, it's not worth getting your panties in a wad.
Recently, in an over the board tournament, we had a youngster go to extreme measures to cheat, first denying that the position on the board was accurate, then fabricating a second scoresheet to try to support his allegation. He was caught. He was banned. We all hope that his moral failing can be corrected before he becomes an adult.

I don't say that you are wrong about cheating. I say I am weary of hearing about it. Cheaters will cheat. A few games and rating points will be lost. For my life, that is merely a drop in the bucket of injustice. I'd rather concentrate on the rivers that flow.

No one has noticed that the OP and the cheater have stopped posting... but the debate rages on ;)

@sparowe14 While I can understand you're tired of people complaining about cheating, I think the best approach is to skip over those discussions and move on. Problem solved.

What I take exception with is when users scorn anyone who broaches the topic. This is not the first time I've seen a user claim that discussing cheating is worse than actually cheating. Codswollop. One of the reasons Lichess is such a great place to play chess is the community's vigilance about cheating. I've left two other websites prior to Lichess because the cheating got out of hand and the management of the sites were in denial about how bad it had become.

When the year is 2020 and any teenager can download an app on their smartphone that plays grandmaster level chess, cheating is a serious issue for an online chess site. I wish that weren't the case, but it is. While no one should become obsessed with the topic and give way to paranoia, neither should anyone clasp there hands over their ears and shout, "Cheating isn't an issue and I don't want anyone to talk about it!"

@sparowe14

Can you make a point without a million qualifiers, disclaimers, etc. turning it into a freaking essay? Where would you get the idea that I value a chess game above more essential endeavors. You're putting words into my mouth.

Nobody gives a damn what does and does not irritate the hell out of you. This is a chess site so I'm NOT going to talk about cheating in marriage or breaking the Geneva Conventions in war. We're not here to entertain you so we're not going to tiptoe around your "weariness".

yes there are so many cheaters in the daily rapid aren ain dont know their names but my friend is also a cheater!! he is actually not my friend from when i caught him cheating but i had also complained to lichess about him but i got no result

@GSP0113

Well said!! Indeed, it is kind of absurd for a person to claim that DISCUSSION of a wrong is worse than the wrong. And the reasoning behind that line of his thought is that he's personally "weary" of the topic. Sigh.

Well, thankfully, we are here on a site that is proactive about cheating. Also, the forums here are of a much, much higher quality than what I encountered on chess.com's chats. Happy to be here!

Reconnecting