kb has finally been banned!!!!!!!!

@RickRenegade said in #76:

1:58 Let's remind ourselves how far KBers pushed the cheating. Multi premoving was their downfall.
Of yes, you have found exactly the video I was looking for :)

@VelociraptorRex

Maybe I can explain the situation from my perspective. I started playing ultrabullet when keyboard was already there. Now, I personally have a mental disorder that disturbs my hand eye coordination, which especially hurt me when having to write on paper in school (because my writing was much worse), but it also limits my mouse speed (at least I suspect that). I am not particularly a gamer, I played some games on the PS, but nothing that helps me with mouse skill.

With that being said, mouse skill already takes long to learn, and to master, and for myself personally, I'm not even sure if I can reach really high mouse speeds.

Keyboard doesnt take very long to learn. On my first account, I started out with kb as an 1800, but I quickly climbed to 2000-2100, where my speed stagnated and I was getting better at stuff like prediciting my opponent, making sensual premoves etc, the stuff that ultrabullet should be ABOUT (in my opinion).

When I play against a good mouse player, I have the choice of having a massive disadvantage or a massive advantage. I think choosing the advantage is the thing most people would do intuitively. For me, playing with mouse against a mouse player is like playing mouse against kb for a good mouse player.

I have a disadvantage for a skill that is completely unrelated to chess (and should be unrelated to ultrabullet, as i said). They have a disadvantage for not doing something that takes 5 minutes.

Here's an analogy: Imagine there is a med school, and it's main building is on top of a mountain. And the med school also have a building that is on the bottom, but doesn't use it. Now with the main building on top of the mountain, good climbers have an advantage at med school because they can attend the lectures. Then someone suggests that the professors holds the lectures in the building on the bottom. And now the mountain climbers go ahead and say "This is so unfair, the regular students don't have any mountain climbing skills, and we still have to go on top of the mountain". And when the regular students suggest they simply visit the lectures at the bottom too, they say that it is more fun for them to climb on top of the mountain.

Now, do you really think its fair to keep having the lectures on top of the mountain, asking climbing skills from med school students? I think the fairest solution would be to have the lectures at the bottom. And the people who still want to climb the mountain can do it, but it's their responsibility if they have a disadvantage.

I hope this explains my situation

P. S. Did you notice somehow we were kicked off from the Feedback Forum? I don't see this thread anymore and only able to open it when you ping me.
I mean, perhaps, nobody is reading us already, haha :) Don't understand how that's possible though.

I just did, very strange, perhaps they are waiting to close the topic or sth

@clasherbabo said in #82:

@VelociraptorRex

Maybe I can explain the situation from my perspective. I started playing ultrabullet when keyboard was already there. Now, I personally have a mental disorder that disturbs my hand eye coordination, which especially hurt me when having to write on paper in school (because my writing was much worse), but it also limits my mouse speed (at least I suspect that). I am not particularly a gamer, I played some games on the PS, but nothing that helps me with mouse skill.

With that being said, mouse skill already takes long to learn, and to master, and for myself personally, I'm not even sure if I can reach really high mouse speeds.

Keyboard doesnt take very long to learn. On my first account, I started out with kb as an 1800, but I quickly climbed to 2000-2100, where my speed stagnated and I was getting better at stuff like prediciting my opponent, making sensual premoves etc, the stuff that ultrabullet should be ABOUT (in my opinion).

When I play against a good mouse player, I have the choice of having a massive disadvantage or a massive advantage. I think choosing the advantage is the thing most people would do intuitively. For me, playing with mouse against a mouse player is like playing mouse against kb for a good mouse player.

I have a disadvantage for a skill that is completely unrelated to chess (and should be unrelated to ultrabullet, as i said). They have a disadvantage for not doing something that takes 5 minutes.

Well, now I understand. Sorry, I did not know some circumstances. You have chosen a massive advantage, but you had only two ways, as you said: between massive advantage and massive disadvantage. I can understand you, but most of the people choose advantage just because it is advantage and it's just easier.

What you are saying about Andrew Tang, I can say conversely about many keyboarders (not about you, you had a different background, but about most of them): they have an opportunity to learn how to play fast with mouse, as Tang does, for example, but they are lazy to do that (because you need to invest a lot of time to improve that skill) and choose a shorter and advantageous way: it's easier to learn how to play with keyboard.

Here's an analogy: Imagine there is a med school, and it's main building is on top of a mountain. And the med school also have a building that is on the bottom, but doesn't use it. Now with the main building on top of the mountain, good climbers have an advantage at med school because they can attend the lectures. Then someone suggests that the professors holds the lectures in the building on the bottom. And now the mountain climbers go ahead and say "This is so unfair, the regular students don't have any mountain climbing skills, and we still have to go on top of the mountain". And when the regular students suggest they simply visit the lectures at the bottom too, they say that it is more fun for them to climb on top of the mountain.

Now, do you really think its fair to keep having the lectures on top of the mountain, asking climbing skills from med school students? I think the fairest solution would be to have the lectures at the bottom. And the people who still want to climb the mountain can do it, but it's their responsibility if they have a disadvantage.

Nice analogy, but for keyboard community I have a little bit different one: imagine there is a med school, and it has only one building: on top of a mountain. Then someone suggests that all of the students should build a new building on the bottom. They are saying it will be easier to visit the lectures and climbing skills won't be necessary anymore. But everybody, i.e. all the students should participate, invest some time, to bulid a new building.
And then the mountain climbers go ahead and say "We understand it will be easier. But this is unfair, we do not want to spend our time for something we don't really need. So if somebody doesn't have any mountain climbing skills, that's only their problem".

That's how it works, in my opinion, for current situation, if we are saying about people's conservatism. That's not a real good thing, I agree. But there is nothing you can do, you can't force them to bulid a new building, you need to destruct old building on the mountain first, haha. And that's impossible.

I hope this explains my situation
That's a correct analogy for your situation. I would even say I understand now that somebody really needs some mouse alternative, like in your case. So, perhaps, it's possible to suggest to add some legal keyboard alternative, Lichess native, but keyboard users should not get a massive advantage in bullet, compared to mouse/touchpad/phone etc. players.

I just did, very strange, perhaps they are waiting to close the topic or sth
Probably, but we are still alive, haha :)

@clasherbabo
This is well written and articulates the point well. KB should be allowed.

It's not even computer assistance if you ask me. You press a key on the keyboard and then you put your mouse over the square you want. So you still are using mouse to put the piece exactly where you want. It's just a different way to move pieces. People should just move pieces the way they want to move them.. using comptuer or touchpad or keyboard or mouse. and one's rating just reflects their ability. if i switched to the smartphone and my rating went down.. that's just my fault for using an inferior tool.

@clasherbabo said in #82:

@VelociraptorRex

Maybe I can explain the situation from my perspective. I started playing ultrabullet when keyboard was already there. Now, I personally have a mental disorder that disturbs my hand eye coordination, which especially hurt me when having to write on paper in school (because my writing was much worse), but it also limits my mouse speed (at least I suspect that). I am not particularly a gamer, I played some games on the PS, but nothing that helps me with mouse skill.

With that being said, mouse skill already takes long to learn, and to master, and for myself personally, I'm not even sure if I can reach really high mouse speeds.

Keyboard doesnt take very long to learn. On my first account, I started out with kb as an 1800, but I quickly climbed to 2000-2100, where my speed stagnated and I was getting better at stuff like prediciting my opponent, making sensual premoves etc, the stuff that ultrabullet should be ABOUT (in my opinion).

When I play against a good mouse player, I have the choice of having a massive disadvantage or a massive advantage. I think choosing the advantage is the thing most people would do intuitively. For me, playing with mouse against a mouse player is like playing mouse against kb for a good mouse player.

I have a disadvantage for a skill that is completely unrelated to chess (and should be unrelated to ultrabullet, as i said). They have a disadvantage for not doing something that takes 5 minutes.

Here's an analogy: Imagine there is a med school, and it's main building is on top of a mountain. And the med school also have a building that is on the bottom, but doesn't use it. Now with the main building on top of the mountain, good climbers have an advantage at med school because they can attend the lectures. Then someone suggests that the professors holds the lectures in the building on the bottom. And now the mountain climbers go ahead and say "This is so unfair, the regular students don't have any mountain climbing skills, and we still have to go on top of the mountain". And when the regular students suggest they simply visit the lectures at the bottom too, they say that it is more fun for them to climb on top of the mountain.

Now, do you really think its fair to keep having the lectures on top of the mountain, asking climbing skills from med school students? I think the fairest solution would be to have the lectures at the bottom. And the people who still want to climb the mountain can do it, but it's their responsibility if they have a disadvantage.

I hope this explains my situation

I just did, very strange, perhaps they are waiting to close the topic or sth

I am a mouse player. However, I am fine with kb - I think players should be able to choose what method works best for them - mice are also more expensive.

I rather use on mouse, I find it practical and comfortable for fast games (Bullet or Ultrabullet ...), otherwise if you know how to control on kb maybe it's easier! but I do not think so