lichess.org

I love premoves, and here's why

@Eleuthero Fair enough. Do you also disagree with the historical precent of mailing more than one move at a time in a correspondence game that has a time limit? Or do you only reject premoves for realtime play (OTB & online)?

@clutchnutz

Why do you bring up the subject of correspondence chess? Show me ONE correspondence player who EVER used the word "premove" in describing an ongoing correspondence game. To equate a technological gimmick in fast to very, very fast chess by literally redefining the word premove is sophistry of the highest order.

I taught university Statistics and Computer Science for 33 years and I'm certainly not against technology. However, what I am against is the idea that all new technology is "progress". Indeed, the way half the world uses cell phones in social settings is a gigantic step backward for human social relationships and is the enemy of good conversation when people let texts or calls ruin ongoing conversations.

I already gave 3 solid rules why premove is a terrible feature. I'm not going to reiterate them endlessly especially when the 3 points go without comment or refutation.

@Eleuthero "Why do you bring up the subject of correspondence chess? "

Online chess, quite literally and concretely, entails transmitting moves to a server - after which a representation of the game is generated on separate boards for each player - just as with correspondence chess. What kind of over-the-board game has ever involved multiple chessboards or played by people on opposite sides of the world? My consideration of online chess as a form of "realtime correspondence" is hardly "arcane" or "sophistric". It's honest and sensible. The similarity of online chess and OTB is one of form, not function. Your insistance on ignoring the correlation does nothing to persuade or refute. It only exposes your argument as more subjective and emotional.

@clutchnutz

Come on, man, you are really engaging in illogical circumlocution because NO CORRESPONDENCE PLAYER CALLS IT PREMOVE.

Deal with my 3 points and I'll keep debating with you but if you continue to sidestep my points then you're talking past me, not TO ME. There is no "correlation" between a game that takes months and a game that takes one minute. Then you come up with the neologism "realtime correspondence" to make two utterly unlike things appear to be like one another. You haven't PROVEN anything in your post. You just made an assertion that correspondence chess is like online chess. Assertions without a body of proof is truly sophistry and, by the way, there's no such word as "sophistric".

My points are clear. You stretch the meanings of words to a point where they mean nothing at all.

@Eleuthero If no one calls them premoves it does not change the fact that they ARE premoves. @clutchnutz 's theory of that equated online games with correspondence was an absolutely correct one and no offence, but I think that now you are arguing just for the sake of argument.

@Eleuthero Who cares what correspondence players call it? When you submit more than one move on a turn to be played on subsequent turns, you can call it Henry and it's still the same damn thing as a premove!

And I'm not ignoring your three points.

Your third point verges on rhetorical and isn't responsive to the matter of premoves - only the quality of games played with fast time controls.

Your second point ignores the fact that online & correspondence chess measure time based on turns, not moves. There is no distinction between a turn and move in OTB but there is a distinction in online and correspondence. I'm not arguing that point.. I'm pointing it out. That is literally how online and correspondence games are currently timed... *per turn*.. not per move. I know you don't agree with the existing protocol, but that is in fact the norm when playing games that have 1. players separated by great distances and 2. moves transmitted and then represented separately by each player rather than played on the same physical board.

Your first point is nonsensical because nobody "touches" pieces even when it's their turn. Your insistance on using over-the-board metaphors to describe the mechanics of online play is the problem. Repeating your point doesn't address that issue. It just demonstrates it. So yes, I am aware that you think of online play in terms of "touching pieces" and playing on the "same board" but that's not what's happening. You are asking me to ignore common sense to accept your position.

> Fact #1 is that premove is touching your pieces before your opponent has moved which is illegal OTB.

in online chess I can drag my queen to a square but not let go of the mouse button to double check I haven't blundered before committing the move. If I see it's a bad move, I can cancel the queen move by moving it back or moving it to an illegal square and move a knight instead, which is illegal OTB.

so?

OTB isn't online chess. Online chess is correspondence chess with added convenience.

Reconnecting