Why does lichess allow cheat wankers to play
cheaters dont play hungarian and ware openings and defenses
99% of the topics opened on this issue have done NOTHING to help resolve the issue, shed any constructive light on any accurate kinds of analyses regarding the issue, productively informed, or otherwise been of any value.
We come to find out that most of the people complaining about cheating don't report anybody to be investigated.
We come to find out that many of the people complaining about cheating really don't know the first thing about chess, much less how to pick out someone that's not playing legitimately.
We come to find out that often the ones making the frivolous claims are the same ones cheating. We've seen them accuse everyone of doing it in order to justify themselves.
We come to find out that the vast majority of threads that are opened on the topic of "cheating" do far more to let everyone know more about the poster of the thread, than the matter of "cheating" itself.
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The amount of cheating in online chess is actually extremely minimal.
The amount of work that you would have to put in to look even half-legitimate is *immense*.
There is no way around it. It is far simpler to actually just practice and legitimately improve, than it is to cheat.
And then to work so hard to look legit, all of that time, all of those 100s of hours that you would have to spend intentionally losing games...only to have anti-cheat experts snatch those 100s of hours of work and make you start over, and over, and over again...it's just not worth it.
Of the available chess sites to play, Lichess exercises one of the best anti-cheat platforms.
There is no question here.
Lichess doesn't have to worry about losing a $99 subscription every time they investigate an account. Lichess doesn't have to worry about losing a long time customer when investigating. No warnings, no politics, no mercy. If you're found to be cheating, you're shown the door.
In fact, not only does this happen regularly, but people trying to repeat accounts and jump back in to cheat some more are quickly shown that it was not a fluke, that Lichess stays on top of things, and that they'll have to come back with a 3rd 4th and 5th account.
It's at that point that THOUSANDS of chess cheaters have opted to try to cheat elsewhere.
As they try another spot to cheat, they find that they can go much further without being caught. In fact, some other sites are so rampant with cheating that the players have literally given up reporting even the most obvious cheaters, and it's just accepted as "normal".
Thanks to Lichess' anti-cheat program, we don't share that problem. Other sites have all of their cheaters, plus those that have been ejected from Lichess enough times to where those cheaters are finding it more efficient just to avoid Lichess altogether.
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Praetorian-7, your cheat-accusation is not uncommon.
The level of your perception is not uncommom.
But you are flat wrong.
Plain and simple.
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So the next time you suspect cheating, instead of polluting these forums with false accusations, instead of increasing all kinds of suspicion, and instead of increasing the amount of motives that people would have to experiment with cheating, instead of adding to the problem...
...instead just make a report and have the expert team of anti-cheat technicians review the case and make their conclusion.
That would be best for the community.
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Regards.
We come to find out that most of the people complaining about cheating don't report anybody to be investigated.
We come to find out that many of the people complaining about cheating really don't know the first thing about chess, much less how to pick out someone that's not playing legitimately.
We come to find out that often the ones making the frivolous claims are the same ones cheating. We've seen them accuse everyone of doing it in order to justify themselves.
We come to find out that the vast majority of threads that are opened on the topic of "cheating" do far more to let everyone know more about the poster of the thread, than the matter of "cheating" itself.
-
The amount of cheating in online chess is actually extremely minimal.
The amount of work that you would have to put in to look even half-legitimate is *immense*.
There is no way around it. It is far simpler to actually just practice and legitimately improve, than it is to cheat.
And then to work so hard to look legit, all of that time, all of those 100s of hours that you would have to spend intentionally losing games...only to have anti-cheat experts snatch those 100s of hours of work and make you start over, and over, and over again...it's just not worth it.
Of the available chess sites to play, Lichess exercises one of the best anti-cheat platforms.
There is no question here.
Lichess doesn't have to worry about losing a $99 subscription every time they investigate an account. Lichess doesn't have to worry about losing a long time customer when investigating. No warnings, no politics, no mercy. If you're found to be cheating, you're shown the door.
In fact, not only does this happen regularly, but people trying to repeat accounts and jump back in to cheat some more are quickly shown that it was not a fluke, that Lichess stays on top of things, and that they'll have to come back with a 3rd 4th and 5th account.
It's at that point that THOUSANDS of chess cheaters have opted to try to cheat elsewhere.
As they try another spot to cheat, they find that they can go much further without being caught. In fact, some other sites are so rampant with cheating that the players have literally given up reporting even the most obvious cheaters, and it's just accepted as "normal".
Thanks to Lichess' anti-cheat program, we don't share that problem. Other sites have all of their cheaters, plus those that have been ejected from Lichess enough times to where those cheaters are finding it more efficient just to avoid Lichess altogether.
-
Praetorian-7, your cheat-accusation is not uncommon.
The level of your perception is not uncommom.
But you are flat wrong.
Plain and simple.
-
So the next time you suspect cheating, instead of polluting these forums with false accusations, instead of increasing all kinds of suspicion, and instead of increasing the amount of motives that people would have to experiment with cheating, instead of adding to the problem...
...instead just make a report and have the expert team of anti-cheat technicians review the case and make their conclusion.
That would be best for the community.
-
Regards.
#3 is just a dumb post. Full of contradictions, and, ironically, full of the kind of typical whining that is not constructive on this issue. Cheating in online chess is just a fact of internet life, I think complaining about it makes more sense than jumping on anyone who does so with posts like this.
You go from:
"The amount of cheating in online chess is actually extremely minimal"
To:
"It's at that point that THOUSANDS of chess cheaters have opted to try to cheat elsewhere."
What?
I'm sorry it's hard to cheat?
Every try searching "Lichess cheat bot" - what would take the most time is finding the easiest and most convenient way to cheat among all the available options.
I don't think you understand that for online chess cheaters, the game BECOMES trying to cheat for as long as you can without getting caught. It's simply more fun to them than playing straight up.
You go from:
"The amount of cheating in online chess is actually extremely minimal"
To:
"It's at that point that THOUSANDS of chess cheaters have opted to try to cheat elsewhere."
What?
I'm sorry it's hard to cheat?
Every try searching "Lichess cheat bot" - what would take the most time is finding the easiest and most convenient way to cheat among all the available options.
I don't think you understand that for online chess cheaters, the game BECOMES trying to cheat for as long as you can without getting caught. It's simply more fun to them than playing straight up.
Only a cheater knows how to tell a cheater from a normal user.
@GEM-592
FIRSTLY, I'm perfectly aware of how the game "...BECOMES trying to cheat for as long as you can..."
Notice how given this fact, a cheater, after reading my post, would quickly deduce that they have better options than Lichess?
Also, according to the numbers that I read, most do not cheat in order to enjoy stress-testing anti-cheat teams.
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SECONDLY, millions of legitimate games are played every week. 1000 cheaters is minimal.
In comparison to other chess sites it's extremely minimal.
In comparison to other online video games it's almost non-existent.
In all variations, it's a MINIMAL concern here at Lichess.
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THIRDLY, well over a decade ago, I read compiled confessions of online chess cheaters.
The #1 main reason/excuse offered was that people started cheating "Just to see how many people were cheating."
The #2 main reason/excuse offered was that, "Once I started using engines just to see if my opponents were cheating, I became addicted and needed to know what the computer line was at all times. I couldn't stop."
There was much to be learned from that compilation of cheaters' testimonies.
All of it is reflected in my initial post.
FOURTHLY, I'm not concerned with my opinion.
I'm concerned with the objective answers to questions like:
a) what's good for online chess?
b) what's good for my Lichess community?
These are the questions that I'm asking and answering.
All else is completely superfluous to my concern, i.e., we have entirely different reasons for posting in this thread.
You have an opinion that needs to be heard.
I'm here to create an effect in the reader.
An effect for the casual/serious chess gamer.
An effect for the dishonest cheater.
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When I read your post, I get the idea that Lichess, to you, is a public service, no different than a urinal at a soccer/football game.
When I wrote my response, I was thinking of Lichess as being *my* community.
I feel a need to protect it, to improve it, to help it.
So my entire post wasn't about "what I like" or "what I think about cheating", it's about "what will work the best?"
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Now we already know that 'more suspicion = more cheating'.
This isn't in question. And without that in question, there can be no contention with my original post.
But in case your imagination is limited:
Ask yourself, what kind of a person would host a chess tournament, and then on the front doors post in neon colors, "Please keep in mind, some of you will be playing undetectable cheaters, and that's just too bad. Please, come play anyway. You might not end up matched with one of them, but then again, you'll never know, unless you also cheat. Pay your entry fee at the next window."
And to have the cross-eyed dingbat who posted such a thing actually look you in the face and explain that this poster HELPS and is GOOD for the tournament...
Come on. Give your head a shake.
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No. There is NO-PRAGMATIC-GOOD that comes from spreading suspicion and fear.
It is not good for internet chess as a whole, and it's definitely not good for my community here at Lichess.
-
Now, in answering your contention, you've teased out far more than I wanted to offer the potential cheaters that are looking on, but I hope that you can appreciate that there are people that have real ideas to contribute, such as, but not limited to:
a) CHEATING IS MINIMAL IN ONLINE CHESS
b) CHEATING IS ALMOST NON-EXISTENT AT LICHESS
c) IF YOU LOVE CHESS, HERE, AT LICHESS, YOU'RE IN THE RIGHT SPOT
d) IF YOU LOVE CHESS, HERE, AT LICHESS, YOU'RE IN THE *ONLY* SPOT
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Oh yeah, one more thing...
Do you have any idea how much time and energy is spent in investigating and banning cheaters here at Lichess?
So imagine what kind of message it sends when you look straight past the OP lying about how "Lichess allows cheaters", only to take issue with my response.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV3_UHG73oQ
FIRSTLY, I'm perfectly aware of how the game "...BECOMES trying to cheat for as long as you can..."
Notice how given this fact, a cheater, after reading my post, would quickly deduce that they have better options than Lichess?
Also, according to the numbers that I read, most do not cheat in order to enjoy stress-testing anti-cheat teams.
-
SECONDLY, millions of legitimate games are played every week. 1000 cheaters is minimal.
In comparison to other chess sites it's extremely minimal.
In comparison to other online video games it's almost non-existent.
In all variations, it's a MINIMAL concern here at Lichess.
-
THIRDLY, well over a decade ago, I read compiled confessions of online chess cheaters.
The #1 main reason/excuse offered was that people started cheating "Just to see how many people were cheating."
The #2 main reason/excuse offered was that, "Once I started using engines just to see if my opponents were cheating, I became addicted and needed to know what the computer line was at all times. I couldn't stop."
There was much to be learned from that compilation of cheaters' testimonies.
All of it is reflected in my initial post.
FOURTHLY, I'm not concerned with my opinion.
I'm concerned with the objective answers to questions like:
a) what's good for online chess?
b) what's good for my Lichess community?
These are the questions that I'm asking and answering.
All else is completely superfluous to my concern, i.e., we have entirely different reasons for posting in this thread.
You have an opinion that needs to be heard.
I'm here to create an effect in the reader.
An effect for the casual/serious chess gamer.
An effect for the dishonest cheater.
-
When I read your post, I get the idea that Lichess, to you, is a public service, no different than a urinal at a soccer/football game.
When I wrote my response, I was thinking of Lichess as being *my* community.
I feel a need to protect it, to improve it, to help it.
So my entire post wasn't about "what I like" or "what I think about cheating", it's about "what will work the best?"
-
Now we already know that 'more suspicion = more cheating'.
This isn't in question. And without that in question, there can be no contention with my original post.
But in case your imagination is limited:
Ask yourself, what kind of a person would host a chess tournament, and then on the front doors post in neon colors, "Please keep in mind, some of you will be playing undetectable cheaters, and that's just too bad. Please, come play anyway. You might not end up matched with one of them, but then again, you'll never know, unless you also cheat. Pay your entry fee at the next window."
And to have the cross-eyed dingbat who posted such a thing actually look you in the face and explain that this poster HELPS and is GOOD for the tournament...
Come on. Give your head a shake.
-
No. There is NO-PRAGMATIC-GOOD that comes from spreading suspicion and fear.
It is not good for internet chess as a whole, and it's definitely not good for my community here at Lichess.
-
Now, in answering your contention, you've teased out far more than I wanted to offer the potential cheaters that are looking on, but I hope that you can appreciate that there are people that have real ideas to contribute, such as, but not limited to:
a) CHEATING IS MINIMAL IN ONLINE CHESS
b) CHEATING IS ALMOST NON-EXISTENT AT LICHESS
c) IF YOU LOVE CHESS, HERE, AT LICHESS, YOU'RE IN THE RIGHT SPOT
d) IF YOU LOVE CHESS, HERE, AT LICHESS, YOU'RE IN THE *ONLY* SPOT
-
Oh yeah, one more thing...
Do you have any idea how much time and energy is spent in investigating and banning cheaters here at Lichess?
So imagine what kind of message it sends when you look straight past the OP lying about how "Lichess allows cheaters", only to take issue with my response.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV3_UHG73oQ
i agree this website invested with cheaters
Today I got a message under the little "bell" icon that said, I lost from a cheater and I got back some lost rating points. How can I find that game back so I know who the cheater was?
Cheaters can only be banned after they cheated a couple of times. Get over it.
@realsalvador
you need to go there:
lichess.org/@/realsalvador/search?perf=6&mode=1&hasAi=0&players.a=realsalvador&players.loser=realsalvador&sort.field=d&sort.order=desc
basically you select advanced search and then you select in the white boxs variant=rapid mode=rated loser=realsalvador
and you look through the games played the last 2/3 days. all the cheaters are caught pretty fast so you know this is around that (look at the name of your opponents. there is a pop up showing their rating and if the player is a cheater there is a message saying it instead)
the game where your opponent cheated is here:
you need to go there:
lichess.org/@/realsalvador/search?perf=6&mode=1&hasAi=0&players.a=realsalvador&players.loser=realsalvador&sort.field=d&sort.order=desc
basically you select advanced search and then you select in the white boxs variant=rapid mode=rated loser=realsalvador
and you look through the games played the last 2/3 days. all the cheaters are caught pretty fast so you know this is around that (look at the name of your opponents. there is a pop up showing their rating and if the player is a cheater there is a message saying it instead)
the game where your opponent cheated is here:
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