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Caro-Kann

@JoelHoge hmmm, YES I DID!

Unless you can outplay an engine, I don't see why you are laughing.

That's an absurd argument. The tree branching from the root of 1. e4 c6 is immensely large and the position completely non-tactical. You simply can't use its evaluation so early as a benchmark for opening choice.

According to Master database, 1. e4 c6 is 33%-24%, somewhat worse than Sicilian (32-27) but better than e5 (31-21).

However, note that on Lichess database of all non-bullet games over 2000, 2200, or 2500, all replies to e4 have essentially the same win rates. It really doesn't matter all that much which opening you pick.

@BlackSalt
Is useless using an engine to evaluate a position reached after 2 moves. Every chess player with a minimum of game understanding could understand that. And as JoelHoge said this system can't be used to pick an opening.

Last I checked tree branching is always immense. (until you come to forced positions)

You simply can use evaluation as a benchmark for opening choice, it's easy.
If you mix in Leela with Stockfish you escape this is a non-tactical position argument.

As for the horizon effect I say, I don't care until it effects me, then I'll look up a new line.

@Emdryo I think I agree with you - what would you recommend as an alternative?

If your friend starts hating you for the caro kan (1.e4 c6 !), you can always play "the other c6", 1. e4 Nc6.

You can snatch an early pawn if they still play against it like a caro kan: 1.e4 Nc6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 Bf5 4. Bd3 ? Nxd4. A prank I always like to try, as 4. Bd3 is the third most popular move on lichess :P

I meant immensely large in combination with being a non-tactical position, that is there are no forcing lines in sight. Anyway, it's quite redundant for me to argue against such lunacy. So, whatever floats your boat BlackSalt.

Nice segue @box_boxed

The refutation to the Caro-Kann: 1. e4 c6?? 2. d4 d5 (forced) 3. Nc3 dxe4 (forced) 4. Nxe4 Nd7 (forced)5. Qe2!! Ngf6 (forced) 6. Nd6#

I hate caro-kann because it reminds of an old man botvinnik. But it's a great opening def.

Reconnecting